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A woman who was eight months pregnant
disappeared Christmas Eve and hasn't

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been seen since.

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27-year-old Lacey Peterson.

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Dozens of people searched for Lacey.
There could be a body somewhere.

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There were questions about husband
Scott.

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Scott said he left for fishing the day
that Lacey disappeared.

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We have claims of an affair.

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Scott admitted he was cheating on Lacey.
Scott Peterson now admits to both lying

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and cheating.

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Detectives have focused their
investigation on Lacey Peterson's

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husband, Scott.

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It's one of the most famous cases in
this country's history.

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For me, the Peterson case has been that
category of unresolved things in your

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life. In the case of Lacey Peterson,
police identify her body and arrest her

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husband for her murder.

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I've always believed that there are huge
problems in this case. I'm a dependent,

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Scott Lee Peterson, guilty of the crime
of murder.

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The world knew that Scott was a
philanderer who murdered his wife.

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But what if everything we knew about the
case was just wrong?

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Nearly 20 years after being convicted of
killing his wife and their unborn child,

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Scott Peterson was back in court today
seeking a new trial.

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The Los Angeles Innocence Project has
taken on Scott Peterson's defense.

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Good morning, Your Honor. Paula
Mitchell, Los Angeles Innocence Project,

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for Scott Peterson.

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When an organization like the Los
Angeles Innocence Project takes on a

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case, it means that they believe that
this is a wrongful conviction.

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And they are arguing that Scott Peterson
is absolutely innocent.

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Paula Mitchell is an appellate attorney.
She has deep knowledge of the facts and

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the evidence and the science. And when I
read the filings, I was blown away.

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They have brought out so many new
aspects of this case that were

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previously unheard of, undiscussed, and
they are putting forward new evidence.

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that suggests that Lacey Peterson's
disappearance was completely unrelated

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to Scott Peterson.

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I'm going to really deeply investigate
the Los Angeles citizen's projects

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filing. It appears the detectives just
decided to destroy this evidence.

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He's the walking, talking incarnation of
junk science.

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This is crazy.

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He did not do this.

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Do I think that we'll be able to answer
this, whether Scott Peterson is guilty

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or innocent?

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I think we're going to get a lot closer
than anyone ever has.

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The trial of Scott Peterson is finally
underway.

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Scott Peterson was a cold calculating
person.

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I think he intended to kill Lacey.

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If you ask people about this case.

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They'll just tell you that Scott did it.

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Do I think Scott Peterson is the person
responsible?

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Absolutely.

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You think justice is served? Yeah.

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Why does the public find this case
fascinating if it's so open and shut and

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it's just about a philandering husband
who found a way to kill his wife so he

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could be with his mistress? If it was
just that, it would have come and gone.

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This has been a mystery from day one.

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My name is Chris Pixley. I'm an
attorney, and for over 30 years, I've

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been doing trial practice.

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I'm a third-generation attorney in my
family, and I was raised to believe,

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actually, that law is a noble profession
and that it can do a lot of good.

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I've done work on behalf of individuals
like the Menendez brothers.

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I represented Eric Menendez for over 10
years.

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But the Scott Peterson case has always
bothered me. I always believed that this

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was not a thorough investigation.

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A man is in prison for the murder of his
wife. I'd like to find out if he belongs

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there.

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Police in Modesto, California have very
few leads in the search for Lacey

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Peterson. Lacey, Denise, if you're
hearing Dad, we love you very much and

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we want you home.

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At the time of Lacey Peterson's
disappearance, I was a legal analyst for

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ABC's Good Morning America, Court TV,
and CNN's Larry King Live.

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The prosecution may not only have to
prove that Scott Peterson is a murderer,

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they may have to prove that he's a
sociopath. I commented on the Peterson

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case from early 2003 all the way through
the trial.

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Obviously, the judge did not agree with
the DA. There wasn't evidence of scratch

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marks. Nobody called them scratch marks.
It was a genuine mystery.

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For every piece of evidence that you
marshaled against Scott Peterson, most

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of which had to do with his character,
there were these unexplained questions

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about the actual physical scene of the
crime.

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There were unexplained questions about
how he could have gotten away with it.

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We don't know when she was killed, where
she was killed, how she was killed.

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Bodies turn up in the chilly waters of
the bay. They are identified as Lacey

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Peterson and her unborn son.

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Scott Peterson says he launched his boat
here to go fishing the day before

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Christmas.

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Scott Peterson always maintained his
innocence.

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And now the Los Angeles Innocence
Project is arguing to the federal court

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that the constitutional basis of his
conviction is not viable.

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that he was wrongfully prosecuted and
convicted.

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First, they're arguing that new fetal
biometric science suggests that Lacey

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Peterson likely didn't die on December
24, 2002, that she may not have died for

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many days or even weeks later.

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If they're right, it means that Scott
Peterson is innocent.

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Secondly, new computational hydrodynamic
modeling suggests that if Lacey

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Peterson's body had been placed in the
bay, in the location where Scott

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Peterson was fishing, her body and
Connor's body would not have been

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recovered where they were.

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The new science is really the game
changer.

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But they also are raising the
possibility that this is a malicious

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prosecution.

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They are challenging the integrity of
the criminal investigation, arguing that

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not only did the Modesto police not
investigate the many, many witnesses

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that came forward with sightings of
Lacey on the morning of December 24th,

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they also destroyed evidence in the
case.

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If the Los Angeles Innocence Project's
new evidence is reliable, it raises

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dramatic questions about the viability
of the state's entire story.

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I'm going to talk to experts, some from
the original prosecution, some who had

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nothing to do with the case, to get
their unbiased views of the case.

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It's an exciting proposition to be able
to really stress test both the factual

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evidence and the new science.

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This is the first time that we've really
started to get an honest evaluation of

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what went on 20 years ago surrounding
the Peterson case.

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Prosecutional contentions that Scott
Peterson killed his wife Lacey and their

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unborn son Connor on Christmas Eve 2002.

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What bothered me most about this case is
that we're supposed to believe that he

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murdered his wife. He left absolutely no
forensic evidence.

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He moved her body multiple times across
the great distance in broad daylight.

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I want to try to retrace.

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Scott Peterson steps at the time of day
and the time of year that he was there.

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Good morning. Nice to meet you. Nice to
meet you as well. Thank you for doing

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this with me. My pleasure.

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I'm Nanette Toosby. I'm a retired LAPD
detective. I was with LAPD for almost 25

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years.

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After my retirement, I became involved
with the L.A. Innocence Project as an

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expert, providing them with insight on
police procedures.

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So the thing that we want to do today is
go to all the locations that Scott

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Peterson is alleged to have traveled to
in the course of disposing of his wife's

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body and just determine how plausible
that is with your expert eye on all

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this. You know, you can read about
something in a file, but it is never the

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same as when you go there and you
actually get an understanding of the

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layout.

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One of the things that's important in
terms of our starting point is that the

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events of December 23rd, the night
before Lacey Peterson's disappearance,

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are undisputed.

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Scott and Lacey go to Lacey's sister's
hair salon to get Scott a haircut.

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They get pizza, they bring it home, and
they start a movie, and then Lacey calls

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her mother late night.

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She was looking forward to it.

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See, and Scott are just so much in love.
They just, they're just, I think

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everybody envies their relationship.
They're just perfect together.

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It's what happens after Lacey's phone
call to her mother where the stories

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diverge. And that's when the
investigation really starts.

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The state theory is that Scott, through
means that are unknown, murdered his

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wife.

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And the next morning that he had the
presence of mind to make searches on the

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computer for things that only Lacey
would be searching for, to load her body

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into the back of his truck, cover it
with some umbrellas, wave to the

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neighbors.

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And, of course, the defense has always
argued this is entirely implausible.

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And I want to see for myself.

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This is the Peterson home. This is
essentially the same physical setup that

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it was back in 2002 when Lacey Peterson
went missing.

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Generally the same time of day, the same
general time of year.

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What do you first notice about this in
terms of the alleged crime?

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It's not a particularly deep driveway,
you know, so it's very close to the

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street. And it's very close to the house
across the street because it's a narrow

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street. And then also how close the
garage is to the neighbor.

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It was a one-story house then, so there
isn't really a huge amount of privacy

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between the homes and just this whole
area in general.

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Christian Deppenwolf was one of the
witnesses who reported seeing Scott that

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morning. Deppwood says she had a brief
chat with Scott Christmas Eve morning.

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She saw him putting umbrellas in the
back of his truck.

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She reported that his truck was facing
into the driveway.

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If I were planning on carrying a body
out, I probably would have backed in the

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truck. But even so, let's just say, you
know, the truck was parked the way it

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was parked.

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To carry a body out and get that body
into the bed of the truck in an area

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that is...

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All intents and purposes, quite open.

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It's a very rifty endeavor if you want
to go unnoticed.

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Even if the body was completely wrapped,
it's going to look like a body. It

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doesn't mean it cannot happen. It's just
how likely is it that you could

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successfully do that without detection.

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Honestly, the state theory, and it was
what Scott... Peterson was convicted on

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is the idea that he loaded Lacey's body
in the back of his pickup truck. Doesn't

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make sense.

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Sheriff's office.

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I don't know what it is, but it's not a
person.

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That's an alligator.

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I would suggest you get out of the
water, sir.

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You're being detained.

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He's in the water.

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Hands up now.

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Watch your crossfire.

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Sir,

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you got wet, but fantastic job. Watch
now.

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Part of crime and investigation on AandE.

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Dispatch, we got a homicide.

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We have no other witnesses right now.

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We got a blood trail.

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We got two fingerprints off the car.
We're going to confirm that that is the

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victim's blood.

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That was not the time to mess with me. I
promise you, it was not me.

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You have a dead guy in your apartment.

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You're lying.

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Step out with your hands up.

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Then go beat the ride to jail.

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The first 48 new episodes watched now
are a crime and investigation only on A

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andE.

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Detectives remove Scott Peterson's new
Dodge pickup truck.

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Prosecution theory that Scott put her
body in there to dump it in the bay.

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So we've left Peterson home. We're now
on the way to Scott Peterson's

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warehouse.

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This is where he is said to have moved
his wife's body from his pickup truck

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into the back of his fishing boat.

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Scott Peterson's boat didn't fit in his
warehouse, and neither did the truck. So

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he would have been transferring the body
from the truck into the boat outside of

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his warehouse in broad daylight, right
out in the open.

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So the back wall of buildings is where
Peterson's warehouse is located.

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Again, same time of day. Right.

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As I look at the units, one after the
other is open.

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He would have had no way of knowing who
would be here and who would not be here.

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And so just to pull up with a dead body.

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Just seems like a huge gamble.

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And do it right out in the open. I mean,
you've got, what, a car length or two

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space. So it's a tight space. If he had
the boat in here and he pulls up to it,

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he's filling most of that space and he's
carrying a body physically from one

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location to another.

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Yeah, it just seems crazy to me.

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You know, on the other hand, he had this
affair out in the open with Amber Fry.

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Amber Fry?

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came forward to say she and Scott had
been having an affair.

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Even as the search continued for his
missing wife.

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Maybe he is a risk taker.

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So let's say he didn't really think it
out so far, right? So he's kind of

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reckless. Right. So if that's his
personality profile, then how likely is

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it that he went on the Internet and
looked up whatever it was that he was

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looking up? Those two, they seem kind of
incongruent.

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Right. The state argues that Scott
Peterson had the foresight to...

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do computer searches looking for items
that only his wife would have been

228
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,600
looking for on the morning of her
disappearance on the computer so that

229
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,620
there was a record of that. If you're
going to go with a theory, you've got to

230
00:15:37,620 --> 00:15:40,580
go with one or the other, like the two
don't add up.

231
00:15:40,900 --> 00:15:44,920
Right. At the 2004 trial, the
prosecution presented to the jury two

232
00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:49,000
Scott Petersons, these two completely
different people. On the one hand,

233
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:54,060
somebody who isn't a very smart guy, who
didn't have really any sense of the

234
00:15:54,060 --> 00:15:57,060
risks that he was taking, that he's
reckless enough to have an affair.

235
00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:03,260
And to continue that affair, you know,
while there were visuals being held for

236
00:16:03,260 --> 00:16:09,140
his missing wife and at the same time,
the state wants you to believe that he's

237
00:16:09,140 --> 00:16:14,560
someone that devised this perfect crime,
that he somehow had the otherworldly

238
00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:21,000
ability to commit this crime and then
wipe his home, his truck, his warehouse,

239
00:16:21,380 --> 00:16:26,540
the boat, all of it clean of even a
stitch of forensic evidence of any kind.

240
00:16:32,449 --> 00:16:35,870
Investigators return time and again to
search waters off the Berkeley Marina.

241
00:16:36,190 --> 00:16:40,650
Scott Peterson says he launched his boat
here to go fishing the day he says Lacey

242
00:16:40,650 --> 00:16:41,650
disappeared.

243
00:16:48,110 --> 00:16:54,030
Scott claims he went to the Berkeley
Marina on December 24th to test a boat,

244
00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:57,910
a boat that he's giving to his
father-in-law as a gift.

245
00:16:59,150 --> 00:17:01,810
Well, the reason I'd wait was just to
get that boat in the water.

246
00:17:02,270 --> 00:17:07,990
I question the reasonableness of Scott
Peterson choosing to drive 90 miles from

247
00:17:07,990 --> 00:17:12,369
Modesto to the Berkeley Marina to make
this three-hour round trip for, what,

248
00:17:12,390 --> 00:17:15,069
maybe an hour out on the water. Right.

249
00:17:17,210 --> 00:17:20,430
I struggle with the fact that he drove
90 minutes to go for an hour fishing

250
00:17:20,430 --> 00:17:23,510
trip in a little boat out on a choppy
San Francisco Bay.

251
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,740
The prosecution's position is that he's
only at the bay to dump Lacey Peterson's

252
00:17:28,740 --> 00:17:29,740
body.

253
00:17:29,940 --> 00:17:33,800
You have this sort of evidentiary
accretion where the more layers you peel

254
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:39,240
back, you find these arguments that are
potentially important both to the

255
00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:40,640
prosecution and the defense.

256
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:47,800
The boat is problematic in a number of
ways. First of all, if Peterson drove

257
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,980
the shallow-bottomed boat from his
warehouse to the Berkeley Marina with

258
00:17:51,980 --> 00:17:57,100
his wife's body lying in the back, The
state's theory requires Scott to have

259
00:17:57,100 --> 00:17:59,640
used a boat cover to conceal Lacey's
body.

260
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,680
But the physical evidence doesn't
support that argument.

261
00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:09,020
The LAIP says that the boat straps
showed no real sign of wear or tear.

262
00:18:09,620 --> 00:18:12,240
Meaning that the boat cover looks like
it's never been taken out of its

263
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,060
container and that the straps aren't
stretched and everything.

264
00:18:16,740 --> 00:18:20,640
Even if it was used, you'd have to take
the cover off when you launch the boat

265
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:21,640
into the bay.

266
00:18:22,110 --> 00:18:26,630
If you're going to do something
suspicious here, he would have no way of

267
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:29,550
knowing that in any of those boats there
could be potential witnesses.

268
00:18:31,470 --> 00:18:35,030
The visibility at the Berkeley Marina at
5 o'clock when we were there was high.

269
00:18:35,130 --> 00:18:38,710
It would have been even brighter earlier
in the day when Scott Peterson was

270
00:18:38,710 --> 00:18:39,710
there.

271
00:18:40,690 --> 00:18:47,470
It's hard to accept that someone would
be as bold as to move

272
00:18:47,470 --> 00:18:51,450
their wife's dead body into a
flat-bottomed boat.

273
00:18:52,110 --> 00:18:57,110
dragged that flat-bottomed boat two
hours down to the San Francisco Bay, in

274
00:18:57,110 --> 00:19:00,990
all likelihood without any cover on the
boat and without being seen.

275
00:19:03,330 --> 00:19:07,530
But in fact, there were people there who
saw Scott Peterson launch the boat.

276
00:19:08,810 --> 00:19:15,650
He was seen

277
00:19:15,650 --> 00:19:18,450
by witnesses in broad daylight in the
middle of the day.

278
00:19:19,010 --> 00:19:21,550
And they somehow didn't see a body.

279
00:19:25,420 --> 00:19:31,040
Talk to me a little bit about the
difficulty of moving a body from a 14

280
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,820
-foot boat into the bay and a single
person doing that.

281
00:19:35,060 --> 00:19:36,540
How reasonable is that?

282
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,420
You've got a body in addition to an
adult male.

283
00:19:40,780 --> 00:19:42,840
How buoyant is that boat going to be?

284
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:47,660
The defense actually tested it out just
physically.

285
00:19:48,590 --> 00:19:55,170
I went so far as to put one of my law
clerks in the same boat. I put him out

286
00:19:55,170 --> 00:20:00,510
in the bay at the same time of day. I
had him take a dummy to try to send it

287
00:20:00,510 --> 00:20:03,190
over. In this particular case, the boat
sank.

288
00:20:04,850 --> 00:20:08,030
They filmed it with the hope that they
would present that to the jury.

289
00:20:08,950 --> 00:20:11,150
Judge wouldn't let that in to evidence.

290
00:20:11,370 --> 00:20:14,690
He said that it was not scientific.
There was no basis for it.

291
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:21,920
Because there's not enough data points
to establish that what happened was

292
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,100
anything close to what the videotape
demonstrated.

293
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,520
So the boat raises so many more
questions than answers.

294
00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:35,360
And as a first-time criminal, it's not
only difficult to pull off a perfect

295
00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:36,360
crime like this.

296
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,820
What is the likelihood that you're going
to be able to...

297
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:45,120
Move the body multiple times from the
home to your truck, from your truck to

298
00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:50,460
your boat, from the boat to the marina,
all without leaving any forensic

299
00:20:50,460 --> 00:20:51,520
evidence behind.

300
00:20:53,260 --> 00:20:59,360
We know that Lacey Peterson's DNA, her
hair, her blood, her bodily fluids, none

301
00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:02,600
of them wound up anywhere on the cover
or on the boat.

302
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:03,940
I find it...

303
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:09,420
Really striking that there is no DNA
evidence found on the boat and none on

304
00:21:09,420 --> 00:21:10,259
the boat cover.

305
00:21:10,260 --> 00:21:13,980
Another part of the prosecution's theory
is that he didn't just clean up one, but

306
00:21:13,980 --> 00:21:15,740
he ultimately cleaned up four crime
scenes.

307
00:21:16,060 --> 00:21:20,000
That would be a tall order even for an
experienced CSI technician.

308
00:21:20,500 --> 00:21:24,780
So you would have expected to find DNA
or other forensic evidence?

309
00:21:25,300 --> 00:21:29,160
Absolutely. Things like blood or hair or
anything like that.

310
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,800
When you add up all the different steps
that...

311
00:21:33,070 --> 00:21:38,630
had to take place, it's sort of like
it's luck after luck after luck that

312
00:21:38,630 --> 00:21:41,030
nobody caught him doing that.

313
00:21:41,490 --> 00:21:43,950
And that, to me, is rather striking.

314
00:21:44,190 --> 00:21:46,070
Because how many times can you be lucky?

315
00:21:54,650 --> 00:21:59,270
Season 3 of LFG is a real-as-real death.

316
00:21:59,750 --> 00:22:01,590
You won't make it. Get him out of here.

317
00:22:02,740 --> 00:22:03,740
No team.

318
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,520
Everybody working towards the same
thing. What are you doing that for? I'm

319
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:07,499
disappointed in myself.

320
00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:08,500
I'm not going to be able to go to sleep
tonight.

321
00:22:08,740 --> 00:22:11,360
You're either moving forward or you're
going home.

322
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:16,900
Everything is on the line. This is what
it takes to be a WWE superstar.

323
00:22:17,300 --> 00:22:21,800
WWE LFG. New episodes. Watch now. Only
on AandE.

324
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:42,620
Lacey was a loving, happy, generous,
vivacious person.

325
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,780
Lacey loves life. She loves people.

326
00:22:46,420 --> 00:22:50,840
Her family and friends all painted this
picture of this girl that was so looking

327
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:52,000
forward to giving birth.

328
00:22:52,220 --> 00:22:56,840
And she was planning on the nursery that
she was finishing the construction of

329
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:58,920
and looking forward to being a mother.

330
00:22:59,470 --> 00:23:00,490
This is Lacey.

331
00:23:00,710 --> 00:23:04,110
Can you tell she's pregnant? Look at
that stomach. It's really sticking out.

332
00:23:05,610 --> 00:23:10,030
She was structured. She was organized.
She had things planned out. She was

333
00:23:10,030 --> 00:23:15,950
social. And so when she comes up missing
and there's no explanation to it, it

334
00:23:15,950 --> 00:23:17,710
signals there's something bad happened.

335
00:23:21,790 --> 00:23:27,410
Modesto Police begin the search for
clues in the bizarre disappearance of 27

336
00:23:27,410 --> 00:23:28,770
-year-old Lacey Peterson.

337
00:23:29,420 --> 00:23:33,880
There's so many inconsistencies in this
case, so many small but important items

338
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:39,880
that just don't add up that I want to go
back to day one of the investigation and

339
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:41,280
examine everything from the beginning.

340
00:23:46,020 --> 00:23:51,440
December 24th in the morning, Lacey was
last seen by her husband, Scott, and we

341
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,660
started an investigation on the 24th
about 5.47 p.m.

342
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,920
After Lacey Peterson was reported
missing, one of the first investigators

343
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,820
to come to the Peterson home was
Detective Brocchini of the Modesto

344
00:24:04,820 --> 00:24:05,820
Police Department.

345
00:24:07,100 --> 00:24:12,800
One thing that's interesting to me about
the early interactions on December 24th

346
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,340
with Scott Peterson is how cooperative
he was.

347
00:24:16,220 --> 00:24:22,200
He agreed to searches of his home, of
his place of business, the warehouse

348
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:23,440
where he worked.

349
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:29,480
He gave over his phone. He agreed to
searches of his truck and his personal

350
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:30,480
belongings.

351
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,900
It's a good sign when somebody is
cooperative with the police.

352
00:24:34,180 --> 00:24:39,200
But there are people who are guilty who
will cooperate with the police. The

353
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,980
reason for that is because they're
guilty, they're afraid that if they

354
00:24:42,980 --> 00:24:45,860
don't cooperate, it'll make them look
guilty.

355
00:24:46,580 --> 00:24:51,860
So as an investigator, you have to be
careful to not read into it too much.

356
00:24:54,090 --> 00:24:59,050
We're not being responsible if we don't
ask the question whether this is error

357
00:24:59,050 --> 00:25:02,830
in the course of the investigation or
whether this is actual misconduct.

358
00:25:03,370 --> 00:25:07,710
Not only did Brokini focus on Scott
Peterson from day one, but he did some

359
00:25:07,710 --> 00:25:09,750
highly unusual things in his
investigation.

360
00:25:10,510 --> 00:25:15,090
One of the things that the LAIP filing
shows is that Scott Peterson was asked

361
00:25:15,090 --> 00:25:19,330
on the evening of December 24, 2002, as
to whether or not he had weapons.

362
00:25:20,060 --> 00:25:24,000
He told the investigator that he did
have weapons. He took him to a location

363
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,700
in his home that he kept his hunting
rifles locked up.

364
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:33,140
He also told him that he had a .22
caliber pistol in the glove compartment

365
00:25:33,140 --> 00:25:34,220
of his car.

366
00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:40,800
Unbeknownst to Scott Peterson, that
investigator, Detective Brocchini, went

367
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,480
to his truck and confiscated that .22
pistol.

368
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:57,180
To remove a piece of property,
irrespective of whether it's a gun or

369
00:25:57,180 --> 00:26:01,820
anything else, to me is not a sanctioned
investigative practice.

370
00:26:02,700 --> 00:26:06,200
The practice is either you get consent
or you have a search warrant.

371
00:26:06,740 --> 00:26:10,280
And as an investigator, if I thought,
hmm, there's something I want to check

372
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:15,000
out about this gun, then I would have
asked, do you mind if I book this gun?

373
00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:19,780
And then if Scott Peterson had said no,
well, then I probably would have

374
00:26:19,780 --> 00:26:22,060
probable cause to get a search warrant.

375
00:26:22,300 --> 00:26:26,060
I saw things in the back of his truck
that first night that just didn't seem

376
00:26:26,060 --> 00:26:27,059
right.

377
00:26:27,060 --> 00:26:30,140
Burkini was done with Scott from minute
one.

378
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,760
There's no doubt that he had an agenda.

379
00:26:33,740 --> 00:26:39,060
Another problem is that the notes from
Detective Burkini for December 24th, as

380
00:26:39,060 --> 00:26:42,200
well as his notes for December 25th,
went missing.

381
00:26:43,740 --> 00:26:47,340
And he testified at trial that he
destroyed those notes.

382
00:26:52,650 --> 00:26:57,470
I cannot come up with a single
explanation why any investigator would

383
00:26:57,470 --> 00:27:02,570
destroy notes, particularly on a
high-stakes case like a missing person.

384
00:27:02,910 --> 00:27:04,670
I mean, it makes no sense to me.

385
00:27:06,270 --> 00:27:11,190
And I don't want to try to read into his
rationale for doing it.

386
00:27:11,570 --> 00:27:13,690
It's just a bizarre thing to do.

387
00:27:14,770 --> 00:27:18,790
And there's an inherent risk, is there
not, that you have exculpatory evidence

388
00:27:18,790 --> 00:27:20,230
in there that's lost when...

389
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,000
police investigative notes or any
materials are destroyed.

390
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:28,040
Not only is that a risk, but the other
risk is also that you sort of

391
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:32,400
haphazardly, as an investigator, decide,
well, I'm going to keep these notes, but

392
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:37,000
I'm going to destroy those notes over
there. Now the integrity of your

393
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,960
investigation is being put into
question, particularly when you go to

394
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,460
trial, because it's bad optics.

395
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,820
Scott Peterson has no criminal record,
and he has no history of violence.

396
00:27:49,100 --> 00:27:55,130
Right. If there had been a history of
Scott being violent and abusive towards

397
00:27:55,130 --> 00:27:59,930
Lacey Peterson, that would point to a
much higher likelihood that, in fact, he

398
00:27:59,930 --> 00:28:01,610
was the one who killed her.

399
00:28:02,250 --> 00:28:07,110
This is a guy who has lived his entire
life without any kind of violence.

400
00:28:07,610 --> 00:28:09,570
It's just not in his makeup.

401
00:28:11,370 --> 00:28:17,650
Just because you're having an affair
doesn't make you a murderer.

402
00:28:19,669 --> 00:28:25,650
Douchey, a very unlikable, unsympathetic
character for sure, but being that and

403
00:28:25,650 --> 00:28:27,730
being a murderer are two different
things.

404
00:28:28,250 --> 00:28:33,710
There was no evidence to suggest that
Scott Peterson had killed his wife,

405
00:28:33,830 --> 00:28:39,790
other than the fact that he happened to
be having an affair and he was her

406
00:28:39,790 --> 00:28:40,790
husband.

407
00:28:42,430 --> 00:28:43,790
That's essentially it.

408
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,760
I want to do this. I can do this.

409
00:28:55,100 --> 00:29:00,900
It's time to raise the bar on the
bizarre. Someone urinated in the middle

410
00:29:00,900 --> 00:29:01,900
of the store.

411
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,100
Might as well make it worse.

412
00:29:04,460 --> 00:29:06,900
With real arrests. They were honking at
me.

413
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:08,820
And very unreal behavior.

414
00:29:09,260 --> 00:29:11,400
My first naked Florida man, for sure.

415
00:29:11,780 --> 00:29:15,000
It was criminal wearing that bathing
suit.

416
00:29:15,340 --> 00:29:16,340
Stop running.

417
00:29:16,660 --> 00:29:19,980
My Strange Arrest. New episodes, watch
now.

418
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,840
Police have not been able to rule out
Scott as a possible suspect.

419
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,500
The shocking news of Scott's affair
flipped two families.

420
00:29:36,860 --> 00:29:39,420
Is there anything you'd like to say? No,
there's nothing. Thank you.

421
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:44,120
When was the moment you knew Scott
Peterson was your man? First day, I had

422
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:45,700
a gut feeling that something isn't
right.

423
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:50,360
From the jump, police were suspicious of
Scott, and they have justified those

424
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,680
suspicions on the grounds of his
demeanor. All along, he had a very

425
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,620
nonchalant attitude with me.

426
00:29:55,820 --> 00:30:00,160
They were suggesting that his behavior
was not the behavior of a grieving or

427
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,180
panicked husband whose wife has gone
missing.

428
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,100
You have no idea where this is.

429
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:18,180
It was just a lot of things that added
up that said to me,

430
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,060
I better talk to this guy with a tape
recorder running.

431
00:30:21,420 --> 00:30:25,940
Scott was a person of interest from the
start because he didn't do all the

432
00:30:25,940 --> 00:30:29,260
things that we asked him to do. And, of
course, there was a stark contrast in

433
00:30:29,260 --> 00:30:32,440
Scott's behavior with everybody else
that was so close to Lacey.

434
00:30:35,180 --> 00:30:40,300
The Los Angeles Innocence Project argues
that the police are conducting an

435
00:30:40,300 --> 00:30:44,060
investigation that is not a missing
person investigation, but a death

436
00:30:44,060 --> 00:30:50,360
investigation, and they are focused with
tunnel vision on Scott Peterson

437
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,460
right out of the gate.

438
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,960
Late detective Craig Grogan turns up the
heat on Scott Peterson.

439
00:30:56,220 --> 00:30:59,300
I'm not telling you that there's
anything that's pointing any direction

440
00:30:59,300 --> 00:31:01,440
right now other than you, Scott.

441
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,280
They were determined to get a
conviction.

442
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:11,700
They had tunnel vision that it was Scott
to the exclusion of any logical,

443
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,400
rational explanation otherwise.

444
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,120
We're on our way to meet with Mark
Godsey.

445
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:28,680
Mark is a former federal prosecutor, and
he is now one of the co-founders of the

446
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:29,940
Ohio Innocence Project.

447
00:31:30,740 --> 00:31:35,680
Mark Godsey, I think, may be one of the
people who can best speak to this idea

448
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:40,120
that investigators and, for that matter,
prosecutors can very quickly be caught

449
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:45,200
up in one narrative and the impact that
that has on their ability to look

450
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,120
objectively at the remaining evidence as
it comes in.

451
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:55,360
With the Scott Peterson case, I was very
much like the member of the public at

452
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:56,620
the time I thought he was guilty.

453
00:31:57,220 --> 00:31:59,360
It didn't occur to me, at least, that he
was innocent.

454
00:31:59,740 --> 00:32:03,400
But I wasn't there. And guess what?
Neither was the judge, neither were the

455
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,820
prosecutors, neither were the
detectives. The idea that the

456
00:32:06,820 --> 00:32:11,080
investigators had on the first day was
that Peterson's our guy.

457
00:32:11,300 --> 00:32:14,700
That's crazy, right? You can't know that
that quickly.

458
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:20,860
But how quickly can the investigators
get caught up in tunnel vision?

459
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:22,280
Very quickly.

460
00:32:22,700 --> 00:32:26,340
You know, it's not because they're bad
people saying, I think I want to convict

461
00:32:26,340 --> 00:32:30,000
an innocent person. It's because they're
good people who see themselves playing a

462
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:31,820
crucial role in protecting the public.

463
00:32:32,060 --> 00:32:34,080
We've taken the entire focus of the
department.

464
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,540
If not 99%, 100% of the investigation
unit is out currently working on this

465
00:32:38,540 --> 00:32:42,880
case. And the more high profile it is,
the pressure it is to solve the case

466
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:43,980
because of the media attention.

467
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,900
And so that first thing comes in that
suggests that somebody did it, and boy.

468
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,140
That's the best news I've heard all day.
It's human nature. You're going to roll

469
00:32:52,140 --> 00:32:54,580
with it, particularly if the evidence is
weak.

470
00:32:56,060 --> 00:33:00,860
And you start ignoring signs and
evidence that start coming in and start

471
00:33:00,860 --> 00:33:01,799
pointing the other way.

472
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,460
And you just see that repeatedly in this
case. This case is starting out in the

473
00:33:05,460 --> 00:33:07,220
press. And he's already...

474
00:33:07,450 --> 00:33:12,250
Guilty. He is such a despised individual
in the public's eye.

475
00:33:12,550 --> 00:33:17,410
This was a nationally covered case. You
couldn't escape it. And so because of

476
00:33:17,410 --> 00:33:23,730
the media coverage, there was a lot more
dramatization that led to roles being

477
00:33:23,730 --> 00:33:26,590
played, and Scott was definitely the bad
guy.

478
00:33:26,970 --> 00:33:33,510
The way I look at it, he's guilty 100%.
Confirmation bias is the human tendency

479
00:33:33,510 --> 00:33:37,930
to interpret information in a way
that... confirms our pre-existing

480
00:33:37,930 --> 00:33:41,270
belief. If they're coming in with this
default that it's probably the husband

481
00:33:41,270 --> 00:33:43,970
and somebody close to her, that's what
their experience tells them

482
00:33:43,970 --> 00:33:46,010
statistically. Before they've seen any
of the evidence.

483
00:33:46,270 --> 00:33:49,890
Absolutely. How do you take a polygraph
test? What about the allegations of a

484
00:33:49,890 --> 00:33:50,890
girlfriend?

485
00:33:51,010 --> 00:33:55,570
So when you look at the Peterson case,
it's clear that they latched onto his

486
00:33:55,570 --> 00:33:57,130
demeanor. I don't really care.

487
00:33:57,550 --> 00:34:01,250
what those people out there think. Do
you really expect people to believe that

488
00:34:01,250 --> 00:34:05,750
an eight-and-a-half-month pregnant woman
learns her husband has had an affair and

489
00:34:05,750 --> 00:34:07,250
is casual about it?

490
00:34:07,510 --> 00:34:08,810
Yeah, we don't know.

491
00:34:09,630 --> 00:34:11,790
No one knows our relationship but us.

492
00:34:12,130 --> 00:34:14,290
We don't know what Scott Peterson was
thinking.

493
00:34:15,030 --> 00:34:16,330
Maybe he was in shock.

494
00:34:16,730 --> 00:34:17,969
Maybe he wasn't that upset.

495
00:34:18,170 --> 00:34:19,290
Maybe he's a jerk.

496
00:34:19,639 --> 00:34:23,580
There's a million things that might have
contributed to his demeanor. And the

497
00:34:23,580 --> 00:34:27,380
demeanor evidence is frequently used
because the evidence is weak. The

498
00:34:27,380 --> 00:34:30,659
prosecutor will get up and say, like,
look at his demeanor. That's not how

499
00:34:30,659 --> 00:34:35,860
somebody acts who just lost their wife.
And that sometimes seems very compelling

500
00:34:35,860 --> 00:34:41,800
to the jury. But human beings are about
54% accurate, so barely better than a

501
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,760
coin flip at determining whether someone
is telling the truth or not.

502
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,199
He's lying to her about being on
business while a community prayer vigil

503
00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:51,940
is being prepared for his then-missing
wife, Lacey.

504
00:34:54,600 --> 00:35:00,800
From your perspective, why is the Scott
Peterson case

505
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:01,940
so important?

506
00:35:02,620 --> 00:35:05,160
It's a microcosm of what goes on
everywhere.

507
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:11,000
You see them consistently ignoring
evidence that contradicts their theory

508
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,200
and sort of shaping it to fit their
theory.

509
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:20,540
Cops are trained to believe that they
can make up their mind very early on.

510
00:35:20,620 --> 00:35:21,620
This person's lying.

511
00:35:21,780 --> 00:35:23,320
It's baked into the system.

512
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,880
They don't like his demeanor. They don't
like the way he's acting. They're making

513
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:28,980
up their mind pretty early. This is
probably our guy.

514
00:35:29,340 --> 00:35:31,100
There was not enough evidence to make
that conclusion.

515
00:35:34,300 --> 00:35:37,980
When it comes to the conversation, like
the one we had with Professor Godfrey,

516
00:35:38,100 --> 00:35:42,900
is that we have to be open to the
possibility that there are many

517
00:35:42,900 --> 00:35:44,960
wrongfully convicted people.

518
00:35:45,660 --> 00:35:48,820
who, because of our biases, are sitting
behind bars.

519
00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:52,380
And, of course, the question here is
whether Scott Peterson is one of those

520
00:35:52,380 --> 00:35:53,380
guys.

521
00:35:54,000 --> 00:36:00,300
I'm starting to get a feeling that the
investigation was infected by bias and

522
00:36:00,300 --> 00:36:01,300
tunnel business.

523
00:36:05,300 --> 00:36:08,880
That kind of conduct is enough to turn
the tide of the game.

524
00:36:18,860 --> 00:36:21,840
Do I think that we'll answer the
question whether Scott Peterson is

525
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:22,840
guilty or innocent?

526
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,740
We're going to get a lot closer than
anyone ever has. Scott Peterson, the new

527
00:36:27,740 --> 00:36:30,860
evidence. Available now on Amazon Prime
Video or wherever you stream.

528
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:40,720
For the first time, the jury got to hear
Scott Peterson speak in a taped

529
00:36:40,720 --> 00:36:43,140
interrogation with Detective Al
Brocchini.

530
00:36:43,630 --> 00:36:47,690
One of the things that was presented as
part of the state's case at trial was

531
00:36:47,690 --> 00:36:51,310
the custodial interrogation of Scott
Peterson the same day that his wife went

532
00:36:51,310 --> 00:36:52,310
missing.

533
00:37:11,210 --> 00:37:16,590
The state argued that the portions of
that tape they showed suggested that

534
00:37:16,590 --> 00:37:21,150
this was not a grieving husband who was
concerned at the disappearance of his

535
00:37:21,150 --> 00:37:24,250
wife, but instead that it was a man who
lacked any affect.

536
00:37:24,490 --> 00:37:28,830
At times he leaned back in his chair
with his hands in his pocket. He even

537
00:37:28,830 --> 00:37:30,110
took a cell phone call.

538
00:37:30,850 --> 00:37:33,810
Amy, what's going on?

539
00:37:35,530 --> 00:37:39,250
What the public hasn't been made aware
of is the fact that that phone call was

540
00:37:39,250 --> 00:37:41,350
coming in from Lacey's sister, Amy.

541
00:37:44,350 --> 00:37:51,210
What the state did was roll out very
limited pieces

542
00:37:51,210 --> 00:37:57,890
of Scott's on-camera interview, and his
answers and responses just

543
00:37:57,890 --> 00:38:00,930
seemed out of line with the gravity of
the circumstances.

544
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:23,920
When the state argues that Scott
Peterson isn't acting like a grieved

545
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:28,120
husband who's worried about the
disappearance of his wife, they are

546
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:32,800
leaving out important facts about the
number of hours that this man spent

547
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,720
answering questions before he actually
went on camera.

548
00:38:37,030 --> 00:38:41,650
Peterson reports that in the day of her
disappearance, he was interrogated four

549
00:38:41,650 --> 00:38:47,970
separate times, and it was only the
fourth time at the station on camera

550
00:38:47,970 --> 00:38:50,350
that the rest of us had been able to
see.

551
00:38:52,450 --> 00:38:58,630
Detectives met with Scott at the home,
and they went with Scott to his

552
00:38:58,630 --> 00:39:03,350
warehouse. Scott Peterson says police
drove him around for hours, peppering

553
00:39:03,350 --> 00:39:05,370
him with questions to the point of
exhaustion.

554
00:39:07,210 --> 00:39:11,910
Would it have made sense to take a
suspect, asking the same questions over

555
00:39:11,910 --> 00:39:16,090
and over again, taking them around to
different locations and so forth? Back

556
00:39:16,090 --> 00:39:20,870
in the early 2000s, in any kind of
high-stakes case, it was not unusual for

557
00:39:20,870 --> 00:39:26,890
detectives to conduct lengthy, multiple
interviews of a person that they maybe

558
00:39:26,890 --> 00:39:27,890
thought was the suspect.

559
00:39:28,810 --> 00:39:33,870
If you had a person in the room, the
presumption was, he's the one, he did

560
00:39:33,870 --> 00:39:39,180
it. What the Los Angeles Innocence
Project has pointed out is that by the

561
00:39:39,180 --> 00:39:43,340
time Scott got into his custodial
interrogation at the police office in

562
00:39:43,340 --> 00:39:47,500
front of the camera, the guy was so
exhausted and tired of the same

563
00:39:47,500 --> 00:39:50,840
questions over and over again that he
lacked the affect and emotion that he

564
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:51,840
would have had spontaneously.

565
00:39:52,260 --> 00:39:55,320
You have no idea where this is.

566
00:39:58,020 --> 00:40:00,260
I only have a couple of concerns.

567
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,860
When it came to Scott, of course, always
polite to deal with, always easy to talk

568
00:40:08,860 --> 00:40:14,460
to. But Scott's cooperation level was
always a little bit short of 100%.

569
00:40:14,460 --> 00:40:18,740
Peterson's comments and behavior have
put him under the microscope from the

570
00:40:18,740 --> 00:40:22,420
very beginning. Scott Peterson may be
his own worst enemy.

571
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:26,620
When I say Scott Peterson's cooperation
with the police is significant, what am

572
00:40:26,620 --> 00:40:30,600
I talking about? Well, he agreed to
multiple interviews on the day of her

573
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:32,280
disappearance. Did you check neighbors?

574
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:33,600
I did.

575
00:40:33,870 --> 00:40:34,870
Who do you leave the note with?

576
00:40:35,010 --> 00:40:36,010
Care and service.

577
00:40:36,550 --> 00:40:41,090
What concerns me the most is the fact
that your dog came home with a leash on.

578
00:40:41,290 --> 00:40:43,750
That bothers me. I mean, no question.

579
00:40:44,230 --> 00:40:45,230
Yeah.

580
00:40:46,310 --> 00:40:51,870
What concerns me most is doing anything
I can to further progress. I appreciate

581
00:40:51,870 --> 00:40:52,870
that.

582
00:40:53,630 --> 00:40:59,350
Peterson also agreed to turn over to
them all of his devices, the phones and

583
00:40:59,350 --> 00:41:01,110
computers. He agreed.

584
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:03,300
to give them a lie detector test.

585
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:07,080
Just to eliminate you as a suspect,
would you be willing to take a

586
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:14,000
polygraph? For a suspect to say right
out of the gate, go, sure, I'll take a

587
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,580
lie detector test, is a good sign.

588
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:23,360
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's not that I can
use the issue, but yeah, I believe

589
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:24,198
they're accurate.

590
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:26,200
No, I'm certainly willing.

591
00:41:27,180 --> 00:41:31,900
Nothing is an absolute, but particularly
because most people really believe that

592
00:41:31,900 --> 00:41:38,100
the test is infallible. To agree to go
through that process is a much stronger

593
00:41:38,100 --> 00:41:40,960
indicator that this is a person who has
nothing to hide.

594
00:41:42,140 --> 00:41:46,040
Later on, his father told him, I'm not
comfortable with you taking lie detector

595
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,340
tests. No polygraph was ever
administered.

596
00:41:49,020 --> 00:41:53,280
And there's the question of why Scott
Peterson would not think that the police

597
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,720
would discover that he was having an
affair.

598
00:42:03,740 --> 00:42:07,480
It's reasonable to argue that the reason
he didn't tell him he was having an

599
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:11,720
affair was it's just another fact that
would have led them to believe that

600
00:42:11,720 --> 00:42:13,560
they've got their man and stopped
looking for.

601
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,860
There's also the more common human
explanation that when we're doing

602
00:42:17,860 --> 00:42:19,880
something wrong, we're not quick to
admit it.

603
00:42:36,730 --> 00:42:42,070
The fact that Scott Peterson cooperated
with the police extensively on the day

604
00:42:42,070 --> 00:42:47,010
of his wife's disappearance and in the
days that followed lays the groundwork

605
00:42:47,010 --> 00:42:51,350
for a pretty decent argument that this
guy was doing everything he could to

606
00:42:51,350 --> 00:42:52,350
find his wife.

607
00:43:06,769 --> 00:43:11,670
It wasn't long after Lacey Peterson
disappeared that there were questions

608
00:43:11,670 --> 00:43:12,790
about husband Scott.

609
00:43:13,030 --> 00:43:18,730
From the jump, the criminal
investigators in Modesto are focusing on

610
00:43:18,730 --> 00:43:21,270
Scott Peterson as the sole defendant.

611
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:26,660
They believed that this was a
premeditated crime and they treated it

612
00:43:26,660 --> 00:43:27,660
that way out of the gate.

613
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:32,680
Scott says he left off his missing wife
Lacey on Christmas Eve when he left to

614
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:36,800
go fishing. Police yesterday released
photos of his pickup truck and boat in

615
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,100
the hopes that someone may have spotted
it.

616
00:43:39,300 --> 00:43:43,600
The theory of the boat is that he had
bought it and that it was part of his

617
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:50,580
master plan to go dispose of the body.
And it just never made any sense.

618
00:43:57,450 --> 00:44:02,990
So if you got to about five minutes to
one, you get your boat in, how long do

619
00:44:02,990 --> 00:44:03,990
you think you stayed in the water?

620
00:44:06,150 --> 00:44:08,070
Felt like an hour and a half or so.

621
00:44:11,150 --> 00:44:15,170
About two weeks before Lacey Peterson
went missing, Scott purchased a 14-foot

622
00:44:15,170 --> 00:44:16,250
aluminum fishing boat.

623
00:44:16,930 --> 00:44:21,850
The prosecution's position at trial was
that Scott Peterson got the boat with

624
00:44:21,850 --> 00:44:22,850
the express purpose.

625
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:27,160
of murdering his wife and using the boat
to deposit her body in the San Francisco

626
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:31,480
Bay. He keeps the boat quiet from
everybody. He doesn't tell anybody that

627
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:35,760
he bought the boat. It seemed to us that
there was some premeditation going on.

628
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:41,140
But Scott Peterson said he was taking
the boat out to test it and try it out

629
00:44:41,140 --> 00:44:45,540
because he had purchased that boat for
his father-in-law and it was going to be

630
00:44:45,540 --> 00:44:46,540
a Christmas gift.

631
00:44:48,810 --> 00:44:53,270
The prosecution throughout the trial,
they argued to the jury that the

632
00:44:53,270 --> 00:44:55,910
purchase of the boat absolutely was not
known to Lacey.

633
00:44:59,430 --> 00:45:04,070
Nobody knew Scott had bought a boat, and
we asked various members from the

634
00:45:04,070 --> 00:45:07,230
Peterson family and the Rocha family.
Nobody knew about it.

635
00:45:07,610 --> 00:45:13,190
But just in 2024, the Los Angeles
Innocence Project has found handwritten

636
00:45:13,190 --> 00:45:17,270
notes that were in the Peterson's home
that were not turned over to the

637
00:45:17,270 --> 00:45:18,270
defense.

638
00:45:18,860 --> 00:45:22,400
The notes had the phone numbers of local
marine supply stores written on them.

639
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:27,820
And the LAIP has looked to a forensic
document examiner, handwriting expert,

640
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:32,700
Dr. Linton Muhammad, because they
believe that it's Lacey, not Scott's,

641
00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:35,000
handwriting on those notes that were
found in the home.

642
00:45:36,660 --> 00:45:41,380
It's true. That means that she was not
only aware of the boat, but that she

643
00:45:41,380 --> 00:45:44,600
participated in the purchase of
accessories for the boat.

644
00:45:46,030 --> 00:45:50,770
If she knew about Scott's boat, the
whole argument at the time of trial that

645
00:45:50,770 --> 00:45:54,210
he premeditated her murder and purchased
a boat in order to carry out the

646
00:45:54,210 --> 00:45:56,310
disposal of the body is false.

647
00:45:57,150 --> 00:46:01,550
I want to stress test this with an
independent handwriting examiner who can

648
00:46:01,550 --> 00:46:04,310
tell us whether or not this is Lacey
Peterson's handwriting.

649
00:46:05,270 --> 00:46:09,010
I began my career with the United States
Secret Service.

650
00:46:09,610 --> 00:46:13,850
I completed a two-and-a-half-year
training program there under the

651
00:46:13,850 --> 00:46:15,850
tutelage of experienced examiners.

652
00:46:17,130 --> 00:46:20,990
I'm wondering if you'll just tell me
what you see and how you go about your

653
00:46:20,990 --> 00:46:25,690
analysis. So after I look at the
question document, I'm now looking at

654
00:46:25,690 --> 00:46:27,330
the known sample set.

655
00:46:27,590 --> 00:46:32,850
So first we have Scott Peterson's sample
set. And these are pages from a diary?

656
00:46:33,270 --> 00:46:34,270
Yeah.

657
00:46:35,240 --> 00:46:40,660
Do you notice anything particular about
the writing style of all the entries in

658
00:46:40,660 --> 00:46:41,660
the journal?

659
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:43,000
He prints.

660
00:46:43,240 --> 00:46:45,620
Block print the entire time.

661
00:46:46,060 --> 00:46:52,120
We don't see lowercase style of
printing, which is what we do see on the

662
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:53,120
question document.

663
00:46:53,720 --> 00:46:57,800
So the style of writing is inconsistent
with his known writing.

664
00:46:58,340 --> 00:47:00,780
Now, does that mean that he did not
write the document? No.

665
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:06,160
it may mean that we just don't have that
particular style of writing represented

666
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:08,200
in his known sample set.

667
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:12,240
We really only have a few letters that
are comparable.

668
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:17,920
The R that's represented in the question
document on Richard, the loop is very

669
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,500
narrow. It meets in the middle.

670
00:47:20,740 --> 00:47:26,900
In the known writing, that loop of the R
is usually very wide and round.

671
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,620
The other is the B. You have that little
tail.

672
00:47:31,240 --> 00:47:33,280
at the very bottom of both Bs.

673
00:47:33,940 --> 00:47:37,060
You don't see that in his writing here.

674
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:44,620
There's not a lot of similar features,
and the ones that are are very general

675
00:47:44,620 --> 00:47:45,620
in nature.

676
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:50,440
The conclusion that was rendered by the
expert in this particular case was that

677
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:54,820
it is probable that Scott Pearson did
not write the question material seen on

678
00:47:54,820 --> 00:47:58,780
these post-it notes, and I would agree
with his conclusions.

679
00:47:59,950 --> 00:48:06,250
When I look at all of these entries in
his daily journal, they're all very

680
00:48:06,250 --> 00:48:11,490
neatly within the lines, written in
small block print, very legibly. Does

681
00:48:11,490 --> 00:48:15,410
that say anything about Scott Peterson's
personality?

682
00:48:15,770 --> 00:48:19,770
A lot of people think that we can
determine personality from handwriting,

683
00:48:19,930 --> 00:48:21,950
but there's no science behind that.

684
00:48:23,390 --> 00:48:26,330
Now, the next thing that you did is...

685
00:48:26,670 --> 00:48:30,790
compare the questioned document to the
samples of Lacey Peterson's handwriting.

686
00:48:31,450 --> 00:48:36,710
So when we look at the known samples for
Lacey Peterson, we have a couple of

687
00:48:36,710 --> 00:48:39,550
lists with hand-printing material.

688
00:48:39,890 --> 00:48:45,050
We also have a calendar with a lot of
handwritten material as well.

689
00:48:45,530 --> 00:48:51,110
So her writing style is a print style
using upper and lower case.

690
00:48:52,110 --> 00:48:58,190
Some of the features I noticed was that
The I is smaller than the C in the

691
00:48:58,190 --> 00:48:59,190
question document.

692
00:48:59,850 --> 00:49:06,490
When we look at Lacey's writing, you see
that I is consistently smaller

693
00:49:06,490 --> 00:49:08,090
than the C.

694
00:49:09,490 --> 00:49:14,630
The other is that the C and the H in the
question document are connected.

695
00:49:15,410 --> 00:49:20,370
And when you look at Lacey's
handwriting, that CH combination is

696
00:49:20,370 --> 00:49:22,050
oftentimes connected.

697
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:25,380
So that would be another similarity.

698
00:49:26,660 --> 00:49:28,920
What do you see in this evidence?

699
00:49:29,940 --> 00:49:34,320
Based on the evidence submitted, I would
have arrived at the same conclusion,

700
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:40,900
that Lacey Peterson probably wrote the
question material on the Post-its.

701
00:49:42,180 --> 00:49:47,740
The comparison that Jennifer was able to
make was extraordinary.

702
00:49:49,130 --> 00:49:53,690
It really adds to the credibility of the
Los Angeles Innocence Project's argument

703
00:49:53,690 --> 00:49:57,710
that her handwriting proves she had
knowledge of Scott Peterson's boat.

704
00:49:59,170 --> 00:50:03,510
And it suits a big hole in the
prosecution's theory of the case.

705
00:50:03,810 --> 00:50:07,370
The prosecution has a theory that Lacey
Peterson was calling marine supply

706
00:50:07,370 --> 00:50:13,470
stores to buy real marine supplies as
part of the nautical theme that she had

707
00:50:13,470 --> 00:50:15,450
for Connor's nursery room.

708
00:50:15,930 --> 00:50:21,270
These are not notes where she wanted to
buy some small rubber duckies. These are

709
00:50:21,270 --> 00:50:25,410
notes where she's pricing out a live
anchor.

710
00:50:25,610 --> 00:50:28,550
And that's not something that you're
going to hang over the baby's crib.

711
00:50:28,770 --> 00:50:32,830
The Los Angeles Innocence Project makes
the argument that this is evidence of

712
00:50:32,830 --> 00:50:34,730
the fact that she knew about Scott's
boat.

713
00:50:35,050 --> 00:50:38,670
Therefore, Scott's boat is unlikely to
be part of a premeditated murder plot.

714
00:50:39,070 --> 00:50:43,130
If Lacey knows about the boat, that
is...

715
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:47,600
Critical evidence that concerns the
Innocence Project of undercutting the

716
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:52,000
prosecution's theory and that violated
Scott's right to due process on a fair

717
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:57,120
trial. It becomes virtually impossible
for Scott Peterson to get due process

718
00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:01,000
because the defense wasn't aware of
these post-it notes until 2024.

719
00:51:01,740 --> 00:51:07,280
It was clear to me that she did know
about the boat. The PD deep-sixed

720
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:12,500
everything they could that wasn't
consistent with Scott being the culprit.

721
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:15,380
They were not going to be deterred.

722
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:24,800
Nearly four months after Lacey
disappeared, a woman's body washes

723
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:29,260
ashore at Richmond's Point Isabel, a day
after a fetus was found not far away.

724
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:33,920
The bodies were that of 27-year-old
Lacey Peterson and her unborn son.

725
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:38,640
The state presented testimony at Scott
Peterson's trial through a Dr. Chang,

726
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:40,600
who was a title expert.

727
00:51:41,260 --> 00:51:42,260
Dr. Chang.

728
00:51:42,540 --> 00:51:45,320
testified at trial that for the bodies
to have washed up on the Richmond

729
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:48,640
shoreline, the most likely launch point
would have been exactly where Scott

730
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:49,640
Peterson was fishing.

731
00:51:51,180 --> 00:51:56,380
Now, that was a powerful narrative, but
new science is challenging the viability

732
00:51:56,380 --> 00:51:57,400
of that narrative.

733
00:52:00,240 --> 00:52:04,480
Scott Peterson says he launched his boat
here to go fishing the day he says Lacey

734
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:08,520
disappeared. Police found title charts
of the San Francisco Bay on Scott's

735
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:09,520
computer.

736
00:52:10,700 --> 00:52:14,260
The Los Angeles Innocence Project makes
the argument that the new tidal science

737
00:52:14,260 --> 00:52:20,220
changes this case and undermines the
reliability of the vertiteer.

738
00:52:21,980 --> 00:52:26,460
Dr. Fagan, the Los Angeles Innocence
Project expert, has done something

739
00:52:26,460 --> 00:52:28,520
called computational hydrodynamic
modeling.

740
00:52:28,780 --> 00:52:34,400
Using the Dell 3D modeling system, he
ran various simulations, trajectory

741
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:36,220
simulations, wind simulations.

742
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:41,250
And the conclusion of the tidal expert
is... that a new tidal science places

743
00:52:41,250 --> 00:52:47,810
the bodies being inserted in the bay
from a shallow water location, likely

744
00:52:47,810 --> 00:52:48,810
the Albany Ball.

745
00:52:52,030 --> 00:52:56,930
To my right is Point Isabel, where Lacey
Peterson's body was found.

746
00:52:57,250 --> 00:53:01,990
Just north of that is the Richmond
shoreline, where Connor's body was

747
00:53:01,990 --> 00:53:02,990
discovered.

748
00:53:03,530 --> 00:53:06,750
A few miles in this direction is Brooks
Island.

749
00:53:07,630 --> 00:53:11,850
That is where Scott Peterson places
himself fishing on the day of her

750
00:53:11,850 --> 00:53:12,850
disappearance.

751
00:53:14,110 --> 00:53:20,790
And the Berkeley Marina where Scott
launched from is to my left. And, of

752
00:53:20,790 --> 00:53:24,150
course, the Los Angeles Innocence
Project believes that all of the new

753
00:53:24,150 --> 00:53:30,510
scientific evidence points here to the
Albany Bulb as a possible place where

754
00:53:30,510 --> 00:53:34,990
Lacey's body would have been placed in
the water in order to wind up where she

755
00:53:34,990 --> 00:53:36,570
was found at Point Isabel.

756
00:53:40,980 --> 00:53:46,160
In 2002, when Lacey Peterson went
missing, I was a faculty member at Cal

757
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:51,820
Poly at San Luis Obispo. I worked with
San Francisco State University in San

758
00:53:51,820 --> 00:53:52,618
Francisco Bay.

759
00:53:52,620 --> 00:53:57,680
So you know this body of water because
so much of this case centers on the

760
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:02,560
question of where Lacey Peterson's body
was placed in the bay.

761
00:54:03,780 --> 00:54:06,840
Now, there was a storm event.

762
00:54:07,470 --> 00:54:12,550
Between April 11th and April 12th, 2003,
that both the defense and the

763
00:54:12,550 --> 00:54:15,910
prosecution think that, believe, may
have been the triggering event that

764
00:54:15,910 --> 00:54:16,910
brought the bodies up.

765
00:54:17,510 --> 00:54:23,210
The body was anchored, and when it
washed up was in a condition that

766
00:54:23,210 --> 00:54:25,630
indicated that it had been there for
weeks or months.

767
00:54:25,890 --> 00:54:27,490
That story is the most plausible.

768
00:54:27,690 --> 00:54:34,230
The bodies were logged on the seafloor
for some time and likely released during

769
00:54:34,230 --> 00:54:35,230
that storm event.

770
00:54:35,710 --> 00:54:40,390
I want to start with Dr. Chang's
testimony at trial that Scott Peterson

771
00:54:40,390 --> 00:54:46,490
anchored Lacey Peterson's body in the
bay somewhere near this location where

772
00:54:46,490 --> 00:54:47,490
he was fishing.

773
00:54:48,670 --> 00:54:54,230
Dr. Chang is a hydrologist. Is that a
fit for doing the general analysis,

774
00:54:54,390 --> 00:54:58,170
backtracking from where these bodies
were located to where they might have

775
00:54:58,170 --> 00:55:01,570
been placed? Absolutely. He has the
background to do this.

776
00:55:02,250 --> 00:55:03,229
For Dr.

777
00:55:03,230 --> 00:55:07,830
Chang's model, what you do is you grid
the entire bay at 500-meter resolution.

778
00:55:08,110 --> 00:55:11,730
So each grid space is a 500-meter block.

779
00:55:11,970 --> 00:55:17,970
And basically looking at the adjacent
block, whether it has a flow of water

780
00:55:17,970 --> 00:55:21,770
into it or not, and then translating
that flow to the next block.

781
00:55:22,190 --> 00:55:24,810
So it's like pixels, if you will, in a
picture.

782
00:55:25,070 --> 00:55:30,630
So as water moves from one pixel to
another, it actually creates that flow

783
00:55:30,630 --> 00:55:36,570
field or the tidal flows in the bay. But
one of the odd things about the trial

784
00:55:36,570 --> 00:55:42,850
testimony was that Dr. Chang only used
wind as a factor to

785
00:55:42,850 --> 00:55:44,930
backtracking the bodies.

786
00:55:45,170 --> 00:55:47,390
He only used wind. Yeah, there's
problems with that.

787
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:52,880
He cited his tidal paper in the
testimony, but then again never used it.

788
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:56,900
So the conclusions that he arrived at,
which he testified to, were based

789
00:55:56,900 --> 00:56:01,660
entirely on wind and not tidal action.
Right. Why he didn't use tides is sort

790
00:56:01,660 --> 00:56:04,880
of a mystery because that's his
background, and that's the reason he's

791
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:06,260
an expert to testify.

792
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:11,600
In the bay itself, it's a very tidally
driven system.

793
00:56:12,590 --> 00:56:16,610
And tell me, if you will, your
confidence level on Dr. Cheng's

794
00:56:16,610 --> 00:56:19,010
conclusion that the body was placed
here.

795
00:56:21,230 --> 00:56:22,230
Zero.

796
00:56:25,310 --> 00:56:28,770
And what's your confidence level with
the current day model, Dr.

797
00:56:29,310 --> 00:56:35,870
Sagan's theory that Lacey Peterson's
body was placed in the bay somewhere off

798
00:56:35,870 --> 00:56:36,930
of the Albany Ball?

799
00:56:37,740 --> 00:56:41,580
And, of course, Dr. Fagan has the
benefit of using the DELF 3D model.

800
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:45,780
Yeah, DELF 3D is the model. It's
astronomically different.

801
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:51,920
It's able to take in high-resolution
data to help you drive the model. It

802
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:57,320
integrates freshwater input. It
integrates the wind. It integrates the

803
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:01,820
tidal force thing. All of those things
gave me much more confidence in

804
00:57:01,820 --> 00:57:03,440
believing the model output.

805
00:57:04,700 --> 00:57:06,480
Also, Fagan has looked.

806
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:09,940
at the conclusion that Dr. Chang arrived
at.

807
00:57:10,220 --> 00:57:14,800
And he's done some modeling of where
that body should have ended up if, in

808
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:18,880
fact, she had been anchored or where Dr.
Chang testified that she was anchored.

809
00:57:19,380 --> 00:57:24,800
Starting in the position of that
location, you see the body would have

810
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:29,080
gone behind Brooks Island and then it
would have been shot through this

811
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:34,320
channel and then oscillated here in the
tides, possibly to the Golden Gate

812
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:35,640
Bridge and out.

813
00:57:36,410 --> 00:57:40,930
But the bodies couldn't have ended up
where they were found based on where Dr.

814
00:57:41,110 --> 00:57:43,690
Chang put the position in the trial.

815
00:57:44,870 --> 00:57:49,450
I think it's important to remember Dr.
Chang did not have the tools that are

816
00:57:49,450 --> 00:57:53,430
available today. You know, I think at
the time he was the person to call if

817
00:57:53,430 --> 00:57:57,730
they were going to deal with tides. But
it's bizarre that tides weren't used in

818
00:57:57,730 --> 00:57:58,730
his testimony.

819
00:58:00,070 --> 00:58:04,070
Now, the big question, based on what
you've seen, where do you think Lacey

820
00:58:04,070 --> 00:58:05,070
was likely?

821
00:58:05,310 --> 00:58:06,430
placed in the water?

822
00:58:06,770 --> 00:58:08,310
Oh, that's a tough question.

823
00:58:09,270 --> 00:58:13,050
It's possible that it is here, as Dr.
Fagan shows.

824
00:58:13,450 --> 00:58:17,670
But I think there's some nuance that
have some bearing on the actual

825
00:58:17,670 --> 00:58:22,950
location. If the position of the body
was here, this is a very protected area,

826
00:58:23,170 --> 00:58:25,770
sort of shielded, if you will, from the
storm event.

827
00:58:26,110 --> 00:58:31,690
So it could be a little further south
along the coast here. Right along the

828
00:58:31,690 --> 00:58:34,070
coast here in Albany and Richmond. Yeah.

829
00:58:34,430 --> 00:58:38,730
And not anywhere in the water near or
off Brooks Island where he was fishing

830
00:58:38,730 --> 00:58:42,270
that day. Right. Highly unlikely that
the bodies were anchored in this

831
00:58:42,270 --> 00:58:43,270
location.

832
00:58:44,130 --> 00:58:49,310
We went down the trails. The trails are
ostensibly wide enough to take a car

833
00:58:49,310 --> 00:58:52,990
down. He didn't need a boat to dump the
body in the Albany vault.

834
00:58:53,250 --> 00:58:58,290
He wouldn't have launched the boat at
the Berkeley Marina if he intended to

835
00:58:58,290 --> 00:59:02,110
deposit her body at the Albany vault. He
wouldn't have needed to.

836
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:06,820
What if he wasn't fishing off of Brooks
Island? What if he just took the body

837
00:59:06,820 --> 00:59:10,120
over to the area of the shallow water
and dumped it there?

838
00:59:10,340 --> 00:59:14,340
If you are a first-time criminal, where
does it seem better to dump a body?

839
00:59:14,580 --> 00:59:20,140
Way out in the bay, in the deepest
waters, or in shallow waters 10 feet

840
00:59:20,140 --> 00:59:21,140
from the shore?

841
00:59:22,260 --> 00:59:25,820
What's interesting about this area is
there was a search that was done of the

842
00:59:25,820 --> 00:59:26,820
bay.

843
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:31,680
The water here is very shallow, so
shallow that this area at the Albany

844
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:33,280
Bulb wasn't searched.

845
00:59:34,180 --> 00:59:37,540
Since the shallow waters weren't
searched, it's possible that Lacey's

846
00:59:37,540 --> 00:59:38,780
body could have been there for months.

847
00:59:39,220 --> 00:59:44,180
The state refutes these claims, saying
that the area of the Albany Bulb was in

848
00:59:44,180 --> 00:59:48,680
fact searched with side-scan sonar and
that the LAIP cannot demonstrate that

849
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:50,520
there was a lack of search effort.

850
00:59:50,860 --> 00:59:55,780
The states argue that the Los Angeles
Innocence Project is arguing something

851
00:59:55,780 --> 01:00:00,120
that was known to science as early as
2003.

852
01:00:00,580 --> 01:00:04,260
Los Angeles Innocence Project, of
course, points out the fact that they're

853
01:00:04,260 --> 01:00:06,700
using new Delft 3D technology.

854
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:11,220
We are light years more advanced today
than we were in 2003.

855
01:00:13,300 --> 01:00:17,620
I thought I would be more skeptical when
I came out because it would take about a

856
01:00:17,620 --> 01:00:20,680
10-minute walk to bring a body here in
this location.

857
01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:24,990
But in walking out here, These are wide
paths.

858
01:00:25,290 --> 01:00:30,170
You could get a vehicle down them. And
it's not impossible to conceive at all

859
01:00:30,170 --> 01:00:33,890
of someone easily bringing a body and
placing it in the water.

860
01:00:34,990 --> 01:00:40,350
It seems much easier to have
accomplished that here than out of the

861
01:00:40,350 --> 01:00:44,630
Berkeley Marina via a boat where there
are so many people.

862
01:00:45,870 --> 01:00:49,090
There's no suggestion that Scott
Peterson was at the Albany Bulb.

863
01:00:49,350 --> 01:00:52,410
There's no suggestion that he drove his
car out in that direction.

864
01:00:55,500 --> 01:00:58,400
If you're going to entertain an
alternate theory, and of course the Los

865
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:02,480
Angeles Innocence Project is asking us
to entertain an alternate theory, that

866
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:05,380
someone else is responsible for Lacey
Peterson's death. And that's where

867
01:01:05,380 --> 01:01:10,720
everyone starts to roll their eyes. But
being here physically, coupled with the

868
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:15,960
title maps and the modeling that I've
seen, says to me that the Los Angeles

869
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:18,820
Innocence Project's theories make a lot
of sense.

870
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:21,560
It not only works for the scientists,

871
01:01:22,860 --> 01:01:25,400
But visually, it works for a layman like
me.

872
01:01:39,140 --> 01:01:43,320
We had a week full of various witnesses
taking the stand.

873
01:01:43,780 --> 01:01:48,380
Karen's service found Lacey and Scott's
dog, McKenzie, dragging its leash the

874
01:01:48,380 --> 01:01:49,380
day before Christmas.

875
01:01:49,950 --> 01:01:54,730
One of the big puzzles in this case is
the timeline. When exactly was Lacey

876
01:01:54,730 --> 01:01:55,730
Peterson killed?

877
01:01:56,170 --> 01:01:58,810
One thing about this case is that it's a
timeline case.

878
01:01:59,010 --> 01:02:02,610
And the state established their entire
timeline on the basis of the testimony

879
01:02:02,610 --> 01:02:06,790
of one person, Karen Service, Peterson's
neighbor.

880
01:02:07,070 --> 01:02:11,510
But was Karen Service's testimony as
critical as prosecutors made it out to

881
01:02:11,510 --> 01:02:12,510
be?

882
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:21,920
There were only five murders in Modesto
in 2002.

883
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:27,320
The Modesto Police Department does not
have extensive experience investigating

884
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:28,720
murder cases.

885
01:02:28,980 --> 01:02:33,820
They had almost no experience dealing
with high-profile investigations.

886
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:39,060
The disappearance of a woman that turns
into a criminal investigation, all in

887
01:02:39,060 --> 01:02:45,840
the media, created this rush to be able
to put a name to a suspect as quickly

888
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:46,840
as possible.

889
01:02:48,300 --> 01:02:51,560
When I got there, the first person that
I talked to after meeting Scott was his

890
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:52,780
next-door neighbor, Karen Service.

891
01:02:58,780 --> 01:03:03,780
Karen encountered the Petersons' dog,
McKenzie, with its leash attached to it,

892
01:03:03,820 --> 01:03:06,880
unattended in the front yard on the
morning of December 24th.

893
01:03:08,020 --> 01:03:12,080
So you took the dog, put her in the
backyard, closed the gate, and went on

894
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:13,080
your merry way. Mm-hmm.

895
01:03:13,980 --> 01:03:17,680
After placing Scott and Lacey's dog,
McKenzie, in the backyard of the

896
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:21,800
Peterson's home, Karen's service had
errands to do. One of those errands was

897
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:24,440
to go to a Christmas store by the name
of Austin's.

898
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:28,840
And we were able later, because of a
receipt that she had kept, to trace down

899
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:31,400
the approximate times that she actually
found McKenzie.

900
01:03:33,300 --> 01:03:36,220
And she was able to narrow that time
down to 10-18.

901
01:03:38,180 --> 01:03:42,040
At trial, the state presented Karen's
service's testimony.

902
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:47,560
for the premise that Lacey Peterson had
already been murdered by the morning of

903
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:51,800
December 24th and therefore didn't take
Mackenzie out for her normal morning

904
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:57,300
walk. The state never addressed how
Mackenzie got a leash on in the first

905
01:03:57,300 --> 01:04:01,800
place, why she was out in the front
yard, or any alternative timeline that

906
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:06,680
would have involved Lacey preparing to
go for a walk and being called back into

907
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:07,680
the house.

908
01:04:10,030 --> 01:04:12,950
Karen Service was completely credible.

909
01:04:13,270 --> 01:04:16,210
I have found nothing to suggest that she
was lying.

910
01:04:16,590 --> 01:04:20,690
I was working at the time for the
Modesto B. I was a reporter, and I was

911
01:04:20,690 --> 01:04:22,150
assigned to cover the case.

912
01:04:22,430 --> 01:04:25,570
So you're the only person that's ever
interviewed Karen Service.

913
01:04:25,810 --> 01:04:30,310
What was it about Karen Service's
testimony that was so credible?

914
01:04:30,630 --> 01:04:34,910
Karen Service was an important witness
for the prosecution because she

915
01:04:34,910 --> 01:04:35,970
established the timeline.

916
01:04:36,780 --> 01:04:42,480
I knew Karen's service prior to the
trial, and she was entirely credible.

917
01:04:43,180 --> 01:04:49,040
The possibility exists that because she
didn't go knock on the door and give the

918
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:52,660
dog back to Lacey, that Lacey was alive
and well and inside the house. The

919
01:04:52,660 --> 01:04:56,700
scenario doesn't require Karen's service
to have lied.

920
01:04:56,920 --> 01:05:02,420
It simply says that putting the dog
behind the gate is not an indication of

921
01:05:02,420 --> 01:05:05,060
whether Lacey's alive or dead at all.

922
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:10,320
One possible scenario is that Lacey
prepared to take the dog on a walk, that

923
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:13,980
she had gone back into the house for
some reason, and Karen Servas came and

924
01:05:13,980 --> 01:05:16,320
found the dog unattended and put it
away.

925
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:22,760
Karen Servas' testimony tells us nothing
about whether Lacey Peterson walked her

926
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:23,960
dog that morning.

927
01:05:24,740 --> 01:05:29,260
It only tells us that the dog was
prepped to go for a walk and was in the

928
01:05:29,260 --> 01:05:32,080
front yard, and Lacey wasn't there at
the moment.

929
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:35,900
Also, Karen was not the only eyewitness
that morning.

930
01:05:37,340 --> 01:05:40,780
Central to the Los Angeles Innocence
Project case is the fact that there were

931
01:05:40,780 --> 01:05:44,840
15 eyewitnesses who said they saw Lacey
Peterson walking her dog on the morning

932
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:48,780
of December 24, 2002, after Scott
Peterson had already left for the San

933
01:05:48,780 --> 01:05:49,780
Francisco Bay.

934
01:05:50,540 --> 01:05:55,520
If they are to be believed, it paints a
much clearer picture of what happened

935
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:56,520
that day.

936
01:06:09,770 --> 01:06:13,290
And the people that stepped forward,
they came forward immediately.

937
01:06:13,670 --> 01:06:18,810
But according to the LAIP, most of their
statements were never followed up on by

938
01:06:18,810 --> 01:06:20,570
the investigators for the Modesto
Police.

939
01:06:20,810 --> 01:06:24,770
This is the first time I've seen a video
interview with any of them.

940
01:06:25,180 --> 01:06:28,260
And it's the first time they've been
shown outside a courtroom.

941
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:36,560
Gary Ramoyan is a local private
investigator in Modesto, California,

942
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:42,300
hired by the defense team to interview
the many eyewitnesses that the police

943
01:06:42,300 --> 01:06:45,660
did not speak to in the run-up to the
trial. Some of those interviews were

944
01:06:45,660 --> 01:06:46,660
recorded on tape.

945
01:06:54,560 --> 01:07:00,180
I said, God, did you see that woman?
She's pregnant. She's struggling with

946
01:07:00,180 --> 01:07:00,899
the dog.

947
01:07:00,900 --> 01:07:04,600
And she had dark clothing on, and her
hair was real shiny, shoulder-length

948
01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:10,120
black. I had seen the posters, and I
knew that was the woman that I had saw

949
01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:10,939
that day.

950
01:07:10,940 --> 01:07:12,620
It was definitely Lacey Peterson.

951
01:07:12,980 --> 01:07:16,560
These are just people who are giving
contemporary statements, honestly

952
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:20,240
telling the investigator what they
remember.

953
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:27,700
They kept asking for anyone who had
sight, and so eventually I decided that

954
01:07:27,700 --> 01:07:31,920
I probably should report it. There were
a lot of witnesses who came forward, but

955
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:35,040
the investigators didn't follow up with
the vast majority of them.

956
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:38,620
We were going down to the Loma, we seen
this lady walking her dog.

957
01:07:38,940 --> 01:07:41,060
She looked too pregnant to be out in the
cold.

958
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:48,110
When I saw the news on Christmas night
that they showed the Peterson dog, And

959
01:07:48,110 --> 01:07:51,670
that's when I turned to my wife and
said, I saw that dog in the park. And in

960
01:07:51,670 --> 01:07:56,590
my mind's eye, I see a round person with
black leggings and a white smock.

961
01:07:57,590 --> 01:08:00,830
Fifteen witnesses came forward with
eyewitness sightings of Lacey.

962
01:08:01,450 --> 01:08:06,210
The sheer number of eyewitnesses, that's
compelling.

963
01:08:06,450 --> 01:08:07,990
The time was about...

964
01:08:08,190 --> 01:08:09,870
Sometime after 9.45.

965
01:08:10,070 --> 01:08:13,390
Somewhere between 10 and 10.30.

966
01:08:13,770 --> 01:08:15,990
Around 9.30, it could have been 9.45.

967
01:08:16,229 --> 01:08:22,010
It was between 9 and 11 a.m. It could be
9.45. It could have been 10.15.

968
01:08:22,750 --> 01:08:26,270
The witnesses placed Lacey Peterson
walking her dog in her neighborhood

969
01:08:26,270 --> 01:08:30,770
after the time that Scott Peterson would
have left for his warehouse and for the

970
01:08:30,770 --> 01:08:31,770
Berkeley Marina.

971
01:08:31,790 --> 01:08:36,050
The majority of the witnesses contradict
Scott's and the state's timeline of

972
01:08:36,050 --> 01:08:40,240
events. Because Scott claims Lacey was
home watching Martha Stewart at 10 a.m.

973
01:08:42,979 --> 01:08:46,120
That's not something that you can
dismiss, but it was actively being

974
01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:47,399
dismissed by the investigators.

975
01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:52,500
The Modesto police disregarded most of
the eyewitness testimony. That is an

976
01:08:52,500 --> 01:08:56,660
indictment of the type of investigation
that was done here. I mean, it

977
01:08:56,660 --> 01:08:58,720
challenges whether this was a thorough
investigation.

978
01:08:59,710 --> 01:09:03,649
I don't remember anybody seeing Lacey
walk the dog because I don't think that

979
01:09:03,649 --> 01:09:06,210
ever occurred. I don't think she walked
anything because she was dead by then.

980
01:09:08,130 --> 01:09:11,890
A sergeant that was in charge of the
Lacey thing, I gave him a statement.

981
01:09:12,189 --> 01:09:14,450
We were interviewed by a motorcycle
policeman.

982
01:09:14,910 --> 01:09:16,149
Nothing happened.

983
01:09:16,390 --> 01:09:18,890
And then nobody talked to me after that.

984
01:09:19,170 --> 01:09:22,010
Yeah, I was surprised that the
motorcycle police didn't come talk to

985
01:09:22,010 --> 01:09:24,529
me. Their eyes were on Scott Peterson
himself.

986
01:09:30,350 --> 01:09:36,430
There were a number of people in the
neighborhood who I talked to soon after

987
01:09:36,430 --> 01:09:42,550
she disappeared who told me about their
supposed sightings of a pregnant woman

988
01:09:42,550 --> 01:09:49,210
and a dog on Christmas Eve. There were
hundreds and thousands of tips coming in

989
01:09:49,210 --> 01:09:53,790
to police. Most of them were
well-meaning and some were earnest.

990
01:09:54,270 --> 01:09:59,090
Without asking you about names of
specific witnesses that you talked to,

991
01:09:59,630 --> 01:10:05,730
I'm interested in knowing whether any of
those witnesses are cited in the LAIP's

992
01:10:05,730 --> 01:10:11,750
filing. I did interview some of the
people who were cited in the appeal. I

993
01:10:11,750 --> 01:10:13,790
ended up questioning their credibility.

994
01:10:14,390 --> 01:10:21,310
They would use words to the effect of,
well, in my mind's eye, I can see a blur

995
01:10:21,310 --> 01:10:26,030
over here, and I think it could have
been a person with a dog, and that

996
01:10:26,030 --> 01:10:27,310
person might have been pregnant.

997
01:10:28,510 --> 01:10:29,870
I just can't really say.

998
01:10:32,970 --> 01:10:37,710
I never thought that there would be
anything interesting to say about a case

999
01:10:37,710 --> 01:10:42,090
that has been poured over like no other
case I've ever seen for decades.

1000
01:10:42,550 --> 01:10:45,430
And the more I read, the more fascinated
I became.

1001
01:10:46,600 --> 01:10:50,540
I've been studying memory for a long
time and bringing that understanding of

1002
01:10:50,540 --> 01:10:54,220
the basic science of memory, how
memories are formed in the brain, to the

1003
01:10:54,220 --> 01:10:57,900
real world, especially of eyewitness
memory. What time frame are we talking

1004
01:10:57,900 --> 01:11:04,480
about when you reference the reliability
of memory early on? I usually say days

1005
01:11:04,480 --> 01:11:08,980
and weeks after the event, maybe months,
but once you're talking about a year and

1006
01:11:08,980 --> 01:11:12,600
certainly two years, those memories,
they might be true, they might be false,

1007
01:11:12,620 --> 01:11:13,620
you just can't tell.

1008
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:18,700
That's the methodology that I applied to
the evidence in the Scott Peterson case.

1009
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:22,720
And I focused on the earliest reports
from these witnesses that I could find.

1010
01:11:22,840 --> 01:11:26,960
Days, maybe weeks, that's it. What they
were saying at that time.

1011
01:11:27,440 --> 01:11:31,680
What's most interesting to me from these
very early reports are common features

1012
01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:35,040
jump out across independent witnesses at
a time when memory is most reliable.

1013
01:11:35,320 --> 01:11:40,960
A pregnant lady, a dog, time frame after
she was supposedly murdered by Scott

1014
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:41,960
Peterson.

1015
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:48,020
So we took the drive around Modesto and
followed the location of these

1016
01:11:48,020 --> 01:11:49,020
eyewitness statements.

1017
01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:58,400
We're passing the gas station where
Homer Maldonado and his wife stopped to

1018
01:11:58,400 --> 01:11:59,400
get gas.

1019
01:11:59,860 --> 01:12:02,960
As they came down this road, he said he
was driving slowly.

1020
01:12:03,500 --> 01:12:09,840
And I noticed a young pregnant woman
struggling with a gold retriever.

1021
01:12:11,440 --> 01:12:12,880
The dog was holding her.

1022
01:12:13,390 --> 01:12:16,590
And that's relevant because that keeps
coming up.

1023
01:12:17,830 --> 01:12:21,370
What was the next witness that stood out
to you?

1024
01:12:21,750 --> 01:12:24,410
My name is Vivian Regine Mitchell.

1025
01:12:25,770 --> 01:12:32,410
This home, to my left, has a kitchen
window that looks out on the

1026
01:12:32,410 --> 01:12:36,590
sombra. Hey, I was standing right here,
watching the dishes.

1027
01:12:36,990 --> 01:12:38,510
We pulled this curtain back.

1028
01:12:41,840 --> 01:12:47,520
There was this beautiful lady and her
beautiful dog walking up the street.

1029
01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:53,520
Vivian said that she saw a lady between
10 and 10.30 a.m. and that she was

1030
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:58,640
almost positive it was Lacey. Same time
frame as the witnesses were saying. It's

1031
01:12:58,640 --> 01:13:00,940
early reports of memory when memories
are most reliable.

1032
01:13:01,140 --> 01:13:03,280
So I'd pay attention to this myself.

1033
01:13:03,780 --> 01:13:10,280
She was wearing a white top with long
sleeves and black.

1034
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:17,740
I understand that Vivian Mitchell was
elderly, and you might jump to the

1035
01:13:17,740 --> 01:13:20,460
conclusion that therefore we shouldn't
listen to anything she has to say, but

1036
01:13:20,460 --> 01:13:21,760
that would be the wrong way to think
about it.

1037
01:13:22,300 --> 01:13:26,780
Science-based evidence of the effects of
aging on the reliability of confidently

1038
01:13:26,780 --> 01:13:30,360
reported memories does not show that it
has no information value.

1039
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:35,000
It's still useful information, just not
as useful as from a younger person.

1040
01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:38,060
That morning, we didn't know there was
anything wrong.

1041
01:13:38,340 --> 01:13:40,100
She was relatively confident early
report.

1042
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:46,320
In the case of Karen Service, her
timeline played an outsized role in that

1043
01:13:46,320 --> 01:13:51,400
case. Well, I mean, I congratulate the
prosecution for focusing on the early

1044
01:13:51,400 --> 01:13:54,280
reports of an eyewitness, in this case,
Service.

1045
01:13:54,500 --> 01:13:58,860
But I can't think of a reason to focus
on her selectively. There's so many

1046
01:13:58,860 --> 01:14:00,620
witnesses who claim to have seen Lacey.

1047
01:14:00,980 --> 01:14:05,040
And I just want to keep emphasizing that
doesn't mean Scott Peterson is innocent.

1048
01:14:05,160 --> 01:14:06,160
I don't know.

1049
01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:10,440
But, you know, the prosecution's
particular theory is running into some

1050
01:14:10,440 --> 01:14:13,000
serious headwinds, I would say, really
serious headwinds.

1051
01:14:23,020 --> 01:14:27,680
She was last seen walking her golden
retriever Tuesday morning. At least

1052
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:31,980
three new witnesses saw Lacey walking
her dog the morning of Christmas Eve.

1053
01:14:32,760 --> 01:14:38,140
have received witnesses stating they saw
her in La Loma Park walking that dog

1054
01:14:38,140 --> 01:14:39,380
early in the morning.

1055
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:45,280
Lacey's typical dog walking route took
her past Vivian Mitchell's home and into

1056
01:14:45,280 --> 01:14:48,880
La Loma Park where Lacey was seen by a
number of witnesses.

1057
01:14:49,200 --> 01:14:53,180
According to the LAIP, these witnesses
were also ignored by investigators.

1058
01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:56,160
I want to find out why these
eyewitnesses weren't taken seriously.

1059
01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:09,620
Of all the Lacey sightings, which, if
any of those, stood out to you?

1060
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:16,820
There is really no one witness who stood
out far above all the others, but I'll

1061
01:15:16,820 --> 01:15:21,640
say that, you know, one witness who
seems pretty compelling to me is Campos.

1062
01:15:22,620 --> 01:15:27,140
Diana Campos is someone who saw Lacey
walking her dog out on the Dry Creek

1063
01:15:27,140 --> 01:15:29,120
Trail, which is part of the East Maloma
Park.

1064
01:15:29,930 --> 01:15:32,770
She also, the time, she has it at 1045.

1065
01:15:33,290 --> 01:15:36,590
And when you look back at the early
reports, that's what she's saying. And

1066
01:15:36,590 --> 01:15:39,530
she's saying it because she had to be at
work at 11. That's how she knew it was

1067
01:15:39,530 --> 01:15:43,290
1045. And this is somebody who is a
custodian at Stanislaus County Hospital

1068
01:15:43,290 --> 01:15:48,450
who had to clock in at 11 o'clock and is
able to show, I clocked in that day at

1069
01:15:48,450 --> 01:15:52,990
11. That lends credibility to the time.
This one's more anchored to a

1070
01:15:52,990 --> 01:15:56,510
documentable event. If you're trying to
get at the truth of the matter, you

1071
01:15:56,510 --> 01:15:58,370
should weigh that more than you weigh.

1072
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:00,340
Other accounts, perhaps.

1073
01:16:01,280 --> 01:16:05,920
The state's theory is centered around
this Karen service receipt, which allows

1074
01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:09,620
them to backtrack to the time that she
placed the Peterson's dog in their

1075
01:16:09,620 --> 01:16:14,240
backyard, and they base their entire
theory on the idea that Lacey Peterson

1076
01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:16,840
was dead by the time Karen's service
discovered the dog.

1077
01:16:17,180 --> 01:16:23,340
But Diana Campos had a card showing what
time she stamped in for work, and she

1078
01:16:23,340 --> 01:16:27,080
saw Lacey walking the dog when she was
on a smoking break before her shift

1079
01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:28,080
started.

1080
01:16:28,300 --> 01:16:34,120
Why isn't Diana Campos' timeline and her
receipt as important as Karen's

1081
01:16:34,120 --> 01:16:35,120
services?

1082
01:16:39,500 --> 01:16:44,620
So I thought we'd take a walk in Paloma
Park and just get a feeling for what

1083
01:16:44,620 --> 01:16:46,660
it's like around the same time of the
morning. Right.

1084
01:16:48,480 --> 01:16:51,740
We do have a number of witnesses that
saw her here.

1085
01:16:52,270 --> 01:16:53,550
including Diane Campos.

1086
01:16:53,770 --> 01:16:55,970
You have other witnesses, like John
Brazil.

1087
01:16:56,270 --> 01:17:00,870
This is somebody who's a park service
worker, and he saw Mackenzie pulling on

1088
01:17:00,870 --> 01:17:06,510
Lacey. Now, that's a commonality among a
number of these 15 eyewitnesses who saw

1089
01:17:06,510 --> 01:17:07,910
Lacey and the dog that morning.

1090
01:17:08,150 --> 01:17:11,350
Mike Givetta said that he saw Lacey
Peterson walking her dog.

1091
01:17:11,790 --> 01:17:16,190
I mean, from an investigative
standpoint, I would bring a witness here

1092
01:17:16,190 --> 01:17:18,550
to the park, say, okay, this is the
park.

1093
01:17:19,030 --> 01:17:20,170
Where were you?

1094
01:17:21,920 --> 01:17:26,520
When you were there, where was Lacey?
And that would give us a sense of the

1095
01:17:26,520 --> 01:17:27,520
distance.

1096
01:17:27,980 --> 01:17:33,460
If we don't know that, then it's very
difficult to really provide a reliable

1097
01:17:33,460 --> 01:17:38,680
assessment on how reliable their
sighting was.

1098
01:17:40,020 --> 01:17:46,260
I'm interested to know if proximity to
the event that you sight matters in

1099
01:17:46,260 --> 01:17:47,500
terms of witness memory.

1100
01:17:47,860 --> 01:17:48,860
It does.

1101
01:17:49,040 --> 01:17:52,560
It reduces the likelihood of getting a
confident report. Yeah, that happens.

1102
01:17:52,980 --> 01:17:56,420
They become more likely to be wrong, and
they let you know by saying, I'm not

1103
01:17:56,420 --> 01:18:00,500
sure. And when the distance is long and
witness is nevertheless saying, I

1104
01:18:00,500 --> 01:18:03,500
confidently saw that face, it doesn't
reduce its reliability.

1105
01:18:04,120 --> 01:18:06,640
So Campos was far away, I guess.

1106
01:18:07,540 --> 01:18:10,640
It's less likely that she would have
been confident, but she was confident.

1107
01:18:11,840 --> 01:18:14,260
And when they are, it tends to be
reliable.

1108
01:18:14,500 --> 01:18:18,160
So you still want to put weight on that,
and you just have to factor it in with.

1109
01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:22,140
I don't know, 20 other witnesses or
something. What they also remember from

1110
01:18:22,140 --> 01:18:24,180
that early morning and see if you can
make a sensible picture.

1111
01:18:26,360 --> 01:18:30,800
All of these sightings are around the
same time on December 24, 2002.

1112
01:18:31,140 --> 01:18:36,680
All of them are given by these 15
eyewitnesses to the police within days

1113
01:18:36,680 --> 01:18:37,680
of her disappearance.

1114
01:18:38,220 --> 01:18:42,000
The times of some of the eyewitness
sightings of Lacey walking her dog

1115
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:45,760
overlap in places that would not have
been possible.

1116
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:47,920
But there are enough eyewitnesses.

1117
01:18:48,270 --> 01:18:52,110
that police had a reason to pursue an
alternate timeline.

1118
01:18:53,270 --> 01:18:58,890
Considering the potential of these
witnesses and the fact that they were

1119
01:18:58,890 --> 01:19:05,450
not taken seriously leads me to really
only one conclusion, and that is that if

1120
01:19:05,450 --> 01:19:08,510
you think that you already know who did
it.

1121
01:19:09,040 --> 01:19:15,240
then spending time interviewing and
bringing out maps and having a witness

1122
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:20,380
explain where they were and provide you
with their entire narrative is a

1123
01:19:20,380 --> 01:19:21,880
colossal waste of time.

1124
01:19:22,520 --> 01:19:27,780
That's the only logical explanation I
can come up with, that at that time, the

1125
01:19:27,780 --> 01:19:31,740
investigators must have felt really sure
that they had their man.

1126
01:19:40,300 --> 01:19:45,600
I'm Gary Ramoyan, private investigator,
and I'm here with Tony Freitas.

1127
01:19:46,520 --> 01:19:51,700
Of the 15 eyewitnesses that saw Lacey
Peterson walking her dog on December 24,

1128
01:19:51,940 --> 01:19:57,620
2002, around 10 a.m. in the morning,
Tony Freitas is probably number one or

1129
01:19:57,620 --> 01:20:00,380
number two for me in terms of the
witnesses that I would like to meet with

1130
01:20:00,380 --> 01:20:01,380
and talk to.

1131
01:20:01,600 --> 01:20:05,920
I understand that you attempted to
report this to the police, is that

1132
01:20:05,920 --> 01:20:07,000
correct? Yes, that is correct.

1133
01:20:07,500 --> 01:20:14,100
And so I called and said that I had seen
her walking her dog and that the reason

1134
01:20:14,100 --> 01:20:17,480
I was calling was because I knew that it
was after 9.30 and that was the last

1135
01:20:17,480 --> 01:20:18,740
time she was seen.

1136
01:20:19,620 --> 01:20:24,540
There's so many factors here that help
with this testimony. He drives the same

1137
01:20:24,540 --> 01:20:29,100
route every single day. He knows that it
would have been at least 9.45.

1138
01:20:29,500 --> 01:20:32,240
I mean, Tony's just there. He's wearing
a tank top.

1139
01:20:32,500 --> 01:20:35,460
He's just, you know, all right, you want
me to tell you what I know?

1140
01:20:36,120 --> 01:20:41,880
i'm here to tell you had you ever seen
the same woman before never

1141
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:49,320
of

1142
01:20:49,320 --> 01:20:53,880
the few eyewitnesses that the police say
they spoke to tony frages is one of the

1143
01:20:53,880 --> 01:20:55,120
only ones that's still alive

1144
01:21:01,770 --> 01:21:06,530
In 1999, I had an opportunity to work
for Oral Wheat Breads.

1145
01:21:06,950 --> 01:21:09,110
It was always just as a delivery person.

1146
01:21:09,330 --> 01:21:13,110
Did you have a standard route that you
were on? Yeah.

1147
01:21:14,350 --> 01:21:17,830
When you run a regular route like that,
you're always on the same schedule

1148
01:21:17,830 --> 01:21:21,650
pretty much unless something drastic
comes up where there's an accident or

1149
01:21:21,650 --> 01:21:26,210
something like that. And I knew it was
after 9.30, you know, and it was before

1150
01:21:26,210 --> 01:21:28,430
10 o'clock that I had seen her walking.

1151
01:21:29,210 --> 01:21:32,830
Did your company keep logs, or did you
have timesheets that showed when you

1152
01:21:32,830 --> 01:21:37,130
dropped off at each of your locations?
Yes. In our trucks, we had a printer,

1153
01:21:37,250 --> 01:21:39,070
and we'd print out the time, the stop.

1154
01:21:41,590 --> 01:21:45,210
And I didn't even really know nothing
until I started seeing the posters about

1155
01:21:45,210 --> 01:21:48,490
a week later. One of my friends had
brought it up to me, and he had this

1156
01:21:48,490 --> 01:21:50,670
woman had been missing, and he showed me
a poster.

1157
01:21:53,100 --> 01:21:56,520
And when I seen the boaster, I go,
that's the same woman that I seen

1158
01:21:56,520 --> 01:21:59,640
walking a dog. Same build, same height,
same haircut, everything.

1159
01:22:00,280 --> 01:22:05,260
So it's your friend that was the spark
that caused you to report it.

1160
01:22:05,840 --> 01:22:07,500
Originally, he reported it.

1161
01:22:08,910 --> 01:22:12,770
He told me, I'm going to call and tell
them that, you know, I have a friend

1162
01:22:12,770 --> 01:22:13,850
that had seen it and stuff.

1163
01:22:14,090 --> 01:22:19,810
So your friend made contact with the
police and made a report about what you

1164
01:22:19,810 --> 01:22:23,170
saw. Yes. And he left your information
with them and your contact.

1165
01:22:23,470 --> 01:22:24,930
Yes, as far as I know, yes.

1166
01:22:27,310 --> 01:22:33,070
And did you ever go to any of the
volunteer centers or to the police to

1167
01:22:33,070 --> 01:22:35,130
make an in-person report?

1168
01:22:35,410 --> 01:22:36,410
No.

1169
01:22:37,070 --> 01:22:42,090
So what was the first time then that you
did talk to anyone from the police?

1170
01:22:44,530 --> 01:22:46,710
At some point, somebody contacted you.

1171
01:22:48,050 --> 01:22:51,230
Not that I ever remember that, anybody
from the police department or nothing.

1172
01:22:52,870 --> 01:22:57,690
So you had visits from reporters and you
had visits from the defense

1173
01:22:57,690 --> 01:23:00,210
investigator, Gary Ramoyan. Yes.

1174
01:23:00,510 --> 01:23:04,950
To your recollection, you didn't have
anyone that identified themselves as a

1175
01:23:04,950 --> 01:23:07,390
police officer or investigator who
visited you? No.

1176
01:23:07,730 --> 01:23:08,730
No.

1177
01:23:09,130 --> 01:23:15,350
There's a report that Bill Grogan filed
suggesting that just prior to the trial

1178
01:23:15,350 --> 01:23:18,150
of Scott Peterson, he came and spoke to
you.

1179
01:23:22,550 --> 01:23:24,790
Your statement is right here.

1180
01:23:25,790 --> 01:23:27,270
So he spelled my name wrong.

1181
01:23:29,230 --> 01:23:32,470
And then it says Tony could not see a
blouse or the type of shoes.

1182
01:23:32,730 --> 01:23:37,250
How could I not see a top that she was
wearing? I mean, that doesn't make

1183
01:23:37,250 --> 01:23:40,470
sense. She was wearing a light-colored
sweater.

1184
01:23:40,770 --> 01:23:44,970
And it wasn't light-colored pants. It
was dark pants that I had seen her

1185
01:23:44,970 --> 01:23:45,970
walking in.

1186
01:23:47,070 --> 01:23:52,550
So I don't know why that says that. So
basically there are aspects of that

1187
01:23:52,550 --> 01:23:58,250
report that purport to be a conversation
with you that are not accurate. Yeah.

1188
01:23:59,080 --> 01:24:00,080
Yeah.

1189
01:24:01,340 --> 01:24:04,400
Do you now recall that conversation at
all?

1190
01:24:04,720 --> 01:24:10,160
No. This could have been a possibility,
but I don't remember that at all.

1191
01:24:12,160 --> 01:24:16,920
The only thing I remember was basically
just getting the subpoena. Do you recall

1192
01:24:16,920 --> 01:24:21,180
who subpoenaed you to testify? Garagos.
Okay. The defense did? Yes.

1193
01:24:21,400 --> 01:24:27,460
You were called in to testify, but they
didn't ultimately examine you before the

1194
01:24:27,460 --> 01:24:33,280
jury. Did you ever get an explanation
from anyone as to why they didn't put

1195
01:24:33,280 --> 01:24:34,280
you on to testify?

1196
01:24:34,340 --> 01:24:35,340
Never.

1197
01:24:35,860 --> 01:24:42,000
The witnesses that saw Lacey on the
24th, I think, were telling the truth.

1198
01:24:42,160 --> 01:24:46,640
But at the time, I thought that we had
debunked their case.

1199
01:24:46,980 --> 01:24:49,640
And you think you didn't call them
because you felt like you had already

1200
01:24:49,640 --> 01:24:55,520
debunked? Not only did we debunk, people
get sidetracked by the fact that there

1201
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:57,380
was no evidence in this case.

1202
01:24:58,120 --> 01:25:02,820
The defense team made a decision not to
bring forward those eyewitnesses known

1203
01:25:02,820 --> 01:25:03,820
to the defense.

1204
01:25:03,960 --> 01:25:07,080
Garagos' team isn't putting any of these
people on the stand.

1205
01:25:07,700 --> 01:25:10,580
You have to wonder if the trial would
have had a different outcome had the

1206
01:25:10,580 --> 01:25:13,320
defense called even some of these 15
witnesses.

1207
01:25:15,000 --> 01:25:18,780
How did you feel when the verdict came
out? I just shook my head, like...

1208
01:25:19,260 --> 01:25:25,380
Anybody I ever kind of talked to, you
know, I've seen her and stuff. Oh, no,

1209
01:25:25,480 --> 01:25:29,780
you're wrong. There's no way that this
guy did it. He did it. He did it. Well,

1210
01:25:29,860 --> 01:25:33,720
if he said that Scott was already gone
and I seen her after that.

1211
01:25:35,760 --> 01:25:38,280
It means he didn't do it. It means that
he didn't do it.

1212
01:25:40,580 --> 01:25:42,620
You said your confidence level that.

1213
01:25:42,920 --> 01:25:48,340
that it was Lacey Peterson that you saw
that morning was 99% at the time. I

1214
01:25:48,340 --> 01:25:50,920
still feel the same, that that's who it
was.

1215
01:25:51,560 --> 01:25:55,840
Would you be willing to testify that you
were never contacted in any way, to your

1216
01:25:55,840 --> 01:25:58,940
knowledge, by anyone that identified
themselves as being from the Modesto

1217
01:25:58,940 --> 01:26:00,920
Police? Yeah, I would still stand by
that.

1218
01:26:03,620 --> 01:26:08,100
Tony's statement to us and Tony's
statement to Gary Ramoyan back in 2003

1219
01:26:08,100 --> 01:26:10,140
are not without some problems.

1220
01:26:10,400 --> 01:26:11,540
And so I called.

1221
01:26:12,010 --> 01:26:14,350
and said that I had seen her.

1222
01:26:14,570 --> 01:26:18,230
One of the problems is that when Gary
Armoyan came around to meet with him

1223
01:26:18,230 --> 01:26:24,110
back in 2003, Tony told him that he
called in to the tip line originally.

1224
01:26:24,510 --> 01:26:28,030
Tony's now saying that it was his friend
who made the call to the tip line.

1225
01:26:30,150 --> 01:26:35,330
What matters is, is he believable? I
found Tony to be very believable.

1226
01:26:36,590 --> 01:26:41,430
There's just so many new aspects of this
case that were previously unheard of,

1227
01:26:41,490 --> 01:26:46,930
undiscussed, that got very short shrift,
if any attention at all, in the trial,

1228
01:26:47,070 --> 01:26:48,870
either by the prosecution or the
defense.

1229
01:26:50,890 --> 01:26:54,950
The reality is that you had 15
eyewitnesses, and none of these

1230
01:26:54,950 --> 01:26:59,090
witnesses testified at trial, and we
have no clear answer on why they were

1231
01:26:59,090 --> 01:27:03,670
not called. You have the investigators
destroying investigative notes.

1232
01:27:05,080 --> 01:27:08,780
Questions like the one that has now
arisen with Tony Freitas publishing

1233
01:27:08,780 --> 01:27:12,960
reports about witnesses that you met
with, where the witness says, I never

1234
01:27:12,960 --> 01:27:14,360
met with any investigators.

1235
01:27:15,640 --> 01:27:18,220
That's another level.

1236
01:27:20,300 --> 01:27:24,120
This is entirely what the L.A. Innocence
Project was called upon to do, to test

1237
01:27:24,120 --> 01:27:26,260
the constitutional reliability of this
verdict.

1238
01:27:27,160 --> 01:27:31,420
But I still have questions. I'm eager to
keep digging into these claims and

1239
01:27:31,420 --> 01:27:32,480
looking into the new evidence.

1240
01:27:35,400 --> 01:27:40,200
Mark Argos points to newly discovered
evidence he says was never turned over

1241
01:27:40,200 --> 01:27:41,200
by prosecutors.

1242
01:27:41,340 --> 01:27:44,860
They had a theory, and they were going
to get rid of everything that didn't

1243
01:27:44,860 --> 01:27:45,719
support it.

1244
01:27:45,720 --> 01:27:50,260
A fetal expert testified that baby
Connor died on or around December 23,

1245
01:27:50,560 --> 01:27:56,520
2002. How many other experts consulted
in order to find one that gives them the

1246
01:27:56,520 --> 01:27:57,520
answer that they like?

1247
01:27:58,280 --> 01:28:03,360
There are multiple witnesses talking
about an unusual van. What the hell?

1248
01:28:04,030 --> 01:28:05,550
This changes everything.

1249
01:28:05,910 --> 01:28:10,610
I never, ever had a doubt that he didn't
do this.

1250
01:28:10,890 --> 01:28:16,190
To not consider that there might be a
correlation is investigatively

1251
01:28:16,190 --> 01:28:22,890
negligent. He did not do this. Something
was going on across the street.

1252
01:28:23,470 --> 01:28:30,270
We just want to get to the truth. It's
what was missed in this case that

1253
01:28:30,270 --> 01:28:32,110
maybe is moving me the most now.

1254
01:28:33,640 --> 01:28:34,700
This is crazy.